The trigger for our down-turn?

[fernadez]

Also, in the realisation that winners are needed on the pitch, there should be an understanding that Mourinho (whatever you think of him) has these personality qualities.

What I'm saying is that for us to be winners fans are going to have to put up with players that have qualities that they are moaning about in our manager. There's no way around it.

Players that call each other out, are versed in the dark arts, will put everything on the line in the 89th, that's what it takes to win.

We seem to want to win, but in some idealistic way that's never gonna happen.

Poch,Klopp,Simone,Rodgers,Naglesmann, NE Santo, Wilder are all about this. Of course if you have a combo of this type of manager and a bigger budget that will only increase the chances of going all the way.

I would not include Pep, and Jose in this list. They are great managers but have nearly always had money (*Porto).

I just don't understand this when have any of the managers in the first list here built a successful team without money. Mourinho keeps getting called a cheque book manager, but what has he done differently to any other?

They all spend.

 

[glasgowspur]

I'd say Kane and Dier are the two who are 'non settlers'

What about the other top 6 teams ? Who are their non-settlers?

I don't watch anyone but spurs, so couldn't really say tbh.

 

[SteveAWOL]

I’m not convinced we had leadership on the pitch when it mattered
Hence why we didn’t win any of the games we could have to get to finals or win the trophies
We lost how many semis?
We lost two finals under Poch and both were examples where on the pitch players didn’t know what to do to change things up
Football has become more and more about being “coached” and less and less about being able to play. Teams are about systems.
Leadership on and off the pitch needs to have a backbone, and be willing to say the things that matter when they matter and we haven’t had that for years decades

FTFY...

 

[spitshine]

It was when we lost the cup semi vs Man U. A great chance to win a trophy and win something.

I’m now convinced more than ever that we are cursed as a club.

No matter who we play in a domestic cup semi final(Portsmouth springs to mind), we always find a way to lose.

When the genuine top 4 are out of sorts, Leicester city(let’s take this in),top the league.

We’ve had our “glory spell in the top 4”, and need to realise we are no longer part of that group, only in terms of our brand value.

We finally get the special one when football has moved on from his style of the early Noughties.
Now it’s like watching football under Gerry Francis.

 

[Grays_1890]

Dembele Hahahah

 

[glasgowspur]

Can not agree more with this bit, said so a couple of seasons back that our players ( as a whole) have not got the mentalit y to be serious winners ( there were quite a few who laughed at at that but its been proven to be true). You can have all the great players in a team but unless they have that " winning mentalit y" they will always fall down when it comes to the crunch.

And that has happened to us on several occasions since, we need winners who will go through brick walls to achieve that win ( cue some dismissing that straight away) but as they say the proof is in the pudding.

Just as important IMHO, the ability to darg others with them.

 

[Pirate55]

The question I was answering was about leadership not transfer policy you Cheeky Pirate! But took a few words from a reply I had written to another topic, stripped them of context and appropriated them to fit your agenda. Dare I say it, political at best but The Sun always has room

I really won't rehash the "transfer policy" thing again, but have to have you up on the Liverpool bit. You speak about them losing Suarez, Sterling and Coutinho. The ONLY one of those sold by Klopp was Coutinho, and that was after Klopp finally sanctioned the sale with the knowledge he could then buy VVD and whoever else he needed (a goalkeeper it turned out).

Sterling went three months before Klopp joined. He was already without worldie Suarez and then lost Coutinho for 150 million and Sturridge disappeared.The foundations were therefore ripped from under him but he invested wisely. Poch chose to keep all his big name players and invested poorly.

 

[Baleforce]

Sterling went three months before Klopp joined. He was already without worldie Suarez and then lost Coutinho for 150 million and Sturridge disappeared.The foundations were therefore ripped from under him but he invested wisely. Poch chose to keep all his big name players and invested poorly.

Thats addition by subtraction, neither were a loss performance wise

 

[Baleforce]

The main issue has been incorrect and /or badly advised recruitment from July 2016 onwards.

This was our first team back then:
Lloris
Walker Toby Jan Rose
Wanyama Dembele
Eriksen Dele Son
Kane
Subs; Vorm, Dier, Davies, Trippier, Winks, Lamela....

Since July 2016 the above team has aged and many have departed. And this is how our long term succession planning has seen fit to address the not exactly unforeseen circumstances of i) aging and ii) leaving:-

July 16. Jansen £17m. Disaster.
Aug 16. Sissoko £30m. A joke for 2 years. Now a limited willing runner with no technical ability.
Aug 16. Nkoudou £11m. Championship level, never played.
Aug 17. Sanchez £40m. Up and down, but mostly bang average.
Aug 17. Gazzaniga. £1m. Ok standby for the fee.
Aug 17. Foyth. £8m. Sadly looking like another disaster.
Aug 17. Aurier. £23m. Absolute disaster/liability.
Aug 17. Llorente. £15m. Limited player, worked as an option eventually when not playing football.
Jan 18. Lucas. £25m. Flatters to deceive, limited player with limited to zero end product.
Summer 18. N/A
Jan 19. N/A
(18 months without recruitment)
Jul 19. Ndombele. £50m. Fat disaster
Jul 19. Clarke. £10m. Absolute waste of money.
Aug 19. Lo Celso. £40m? Looks to be good.
Aug 19. Sessegnon. £25m. We’ve bought Kyle Walker-Peters again, but for the left.
Jan 20. Bergwijn £27m. Looks to be good.

So in the 5 year period that Walker, Rose, Wanyama, Dembele, Eriksen and Trippier have left, and Hugo, Jan, Toby, Dier, Dele, Kane and Son have all regressed to varying degrees, we have spent £322m on that absolute list of dross! (and GLC & Bergwijn)

Good list, I’ll add that seemingly, Janssen, N’Koudou, N’Jie, Fyoth and Sess were not given a proper chance, judgement on Clarke should be reserved until he’s had a first team run too.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Good list, I’ll add that seemingly, Janssen, N’Koudou, N’Jie, Fyoth and Sess were not given a proper chance, judgement on Clarke should be reserved until he’s had a first team run too.

Certainly can’t argue that some of them were not given a chance

 

[Grays_1890]

I think the lack of real leadership on the pitch has been a real issue for years. Someone to pull the players up by the collar or rally when on the downturn.

 

[thfcsteff]

Sterling went three months before Klopp joined. He was already without worldie Suarez and then lost Coutinho for 150 million and Sturridge disappeared.The foundations were therefore ripped from under him but he invested wisely. Poch chose to keep all his big name players and invested poorly.

Klopp had his "foundation ripped from under him" when two players had gone before he arrived? What do you think he might've said coming in; that such a thing would not happen again unless he got full use of funds and agreed? He turned around and paid 76 million for VVD and 60 million for a keeper! That is off the back of 40+for Fabinho, 35 for Mane, 35 for Ox, 52 for Keita. Like it or not, Klopp was backed fully.

 

[thfcsteff]

Also, in the realisation that winners are needed on the pitch, there should be an understanding that Mourinho (whatever you think of him) has these personality qualities.

What I'm saying is that for us to be winners fans are going to have to put up with players that have qualities that they are moaning about in our manager. There's no way around it.

Players that call each other out, are versed in the dark arts, will put everything on the line in the 89th, that's what it takes to win.

We seem to want to win, but in some idealistic way that's never gonna happen.




I just don't understand this when have any of the managers in the first list here built a successful team without money. Mourinho keeps getting called a cheque book manager, but what has he done differently to any other?

They all spend.

Why is everyone afraid to admit that the bloke is being paid 15 million a year to be a short term specialist, and in that regard he has failed on his task this season of rescuing CL football for us?

 

[Finney Is Back]

£322m - and yet still people claim Poch wasn’t backed. Unbelievable.

£152m of that he didn’t really get a chance to use.... (Sess, Ndombele and Lo Celso inured, Clarke on loan and Bergwijn not signed until after he left).

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Why is everyone afraid to admit that the bloke is being paid 15 million a year to be a short term specialist, and in that regard he has failed on his task this season of rescuing CL football for us?

But there are massive circumstances this season way beyond his control that have affected our final position
And of course if he ends up with the team finishing higher than it was when he inherited it then that’s arguably an improvement

 

[Bedfordspurs]

£152m of that he didn’t really get a chance to use.... (Sess, Ndombele and Lo Celso inured, Clarke on loan and Bergwijn not signed until after he left).

That’s the kicker that must hurt Poch

 

[parklane1]

Just as important IMHO, the ability to darg others with them.

Indeed.

 

[thfcsteff]

But there are massive circumstances this season way beyond his control that have affected our final position
And of course if he ends up with the team finishing higher than it was when he inherited it then that’s arguably an improvement

It is a reasonable excuse only if applied consistently. And if people grant him that "out" then all prior complaints about the previous tenure are null and void. Except we both know that will not happen. Not interested in hearing about Kane's injury; because we haven't seen THAT before have we?!!!

 

[MKSpur]

£152m of that he didn’t really get a chance to use.... (Sess, Ndombele and Lo Celso inured, Clarke on loan and Bergwijn not signed until after he left).

Fair point but I don’t think it was a sole dig at Poch, more than the recruitment was poor and continues to be so which has caused our big downturn.

 

[DubSpur]

The stadium has been mentioned as a contributor to our downturn. I think one of the reasons it was a big contributor is that it was a ready-made excuse for any failure.
Poch used it numerous times and as a result, the players took the attitude "fudge it, nobody expects us to win". If it was the likes of Ferguson in that position I believe his attitude would've been different. He wouldn't accept it as an excuse from the players and he would've drilled into the players that we're going to show them that we are good enough to deal with playing any team on any pitch.
It might not be the biggest contributor but if the players aren't mentally prepared to fight for each point then we can forget about it.