The Run-in...

[Bedfordspurs]

I think you're overrating both Kane and Mason. Kane isn't better than Sturridge. Mason isn't even a central midfielder. Eric Dier has a long way to go before being even good enough for England. I can't remember the last time he had a good match for 90 minutes at centre half, seems to always have a mistake in him.

We have good youth coming through and I am excited seeing them on Wednesday and hopefully get to a final they have deserved this season.

See I agree here with gutter boy
Sturridge is a very hood striker but his all round game is poor and he only had one foot so can be predictable
Kane if he cAn maintain his form will be the Kai. Engel and striker for years possibly with sturridge along side him
Mason is avery good player but nit England quality yet, however he has shown more this season than plenty of others who may have been ahead of him like Barkley for instance
Dier has had plenty of great games with no errors but was found wanting along with the whole team on Sunday. He will be one of England's main centre backs in a few years IMOIMO

 

[Mumorn]

See I agree here with gutter boy
Sturridge is a very hood striker but his all round game is poor and he only had one foot so can be predictable
Kane if he cAn maintain his form will be the Kai. Engel and striker for years possibly with sturridge along side him
Mason is avery good player but nit England quality yet, however he has shown more this season than plenty of others who may have been ahead of him like Barkley for instance
Dier has had plenty of great games with no errors but was found wanting along with the whole team on Sunday. He will be one of England's main centre backs in a few years IMOIMO

Okay then, well then he isn't better then Rooney who I'd say is arguably the best striker England have produced since Shearer/Sheringham. He's two footed and all round game is ridiculously superior to Kane at the moment. Kane can definitely improve and I like that he knows he can (and Poch knows this too) - Mason isn't a central midfielder though, positionally he is dreadful. He has shown alot this season, I agree. But he's also shown to me that he cannot play central midfield and needs to be upgraded on in the summer. He should be a lot further up field and I think this would be best for the club and himself.

Depends on how you see the word 'great' - I don't think he's had great games. I think he's been solid at times but he always has an error in him. But once again, this is due to age. He's what 20 years old? - He will learn from alot of the errors he makes and will be a better defender because of it. It is why I want to see him alongside Fazio, an experienced head who will help him.

 

[mudshark]

People seem to be ignoring Saints now, more-or-less, in the top 4 equation, but their run in is virtually identical to ours, as are their H/A records (although their goal-difference is vastly superior), and their away form has the edge at the moment, as well. With both of us playing away for 5 out of the 9 remaining games, if anyone still thinks we have any chance at all of top 4, we shouldn't be ruling them out of it either. It might be one of the more interesting subplots in the remainder of the season.

 

[indianspur]

People seem to be ignoring Saints now, more-or-less, in the top 4 equation, but their run in is virtually identical to ours, as are their H/A records (although their goal-difference is vastly superior), and their away form has the edge at the moment, as well. With both of us playing away for 5 out of the 9 remaining games, if anyone still thinks we have any chance at all of top 4, we shouldn't be ruling them out of it either. It might be one of the more interesting subplots in the remainder of the season.

they have really been excellent this season, the performance against Chelski at the weekend was very mature. I like what Koeman has done there after all the upheaval he inherited in the summer

 

[braineclipse]

People seem to be ignoring Saints now, more-or-less, in the top 4 equation, but their run in is virtually identical to ours, as are their H/A records (although their goal-difference is vastly superior), and their away form has the edge at the moment, as well. With both of us playing away for 5 out of the 9 remaining games, if anyone still thinks we have any chance at all of top 4, we shouldn't be ruling them out of it either. It might be one of the more interesting subplots in the remainder of the season.

I'm definitely not ruling them out. Doing so is almost as silly as ruling us out.

 

[Mumorn]

I'm definitely not ruling them out. Doing so is almost as silly as ruling us out.

Agreed, considering we are level on points with them. The game against them is going to be very important for both of our seasons. If anyone gets top four if it's not us though, I'd like for it to be Southampton.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think we would all take Southampton in the top 4 if not is as their least likely to push on... And their perceived as not a long term threat

There are still plenty of games to go. I'd love for us to get some of liverpools luck of late, everything is going there way

 

[PochettinoPochettinoPochettino]

Write 4th place off now, have very little expectations and who knows, maybe we can surprise people and sneak 4th but it is a long shot.

 

[vkn17]

Same brick on here every year.

Watch us win the next 3 games and top4 is on again.

 

[Gutter Boy]

yes it would be nice to finish no lower than 6th , but the question is do we really need the Europa leaque again or would we have a better season without it?

We'd need to drop to 8th to miss out on Europe (assuming Arsenal or Liverpool will win the cup) - so lose 8 points compared to Stoke over the last 9 matches. 7th would just give us an extra qualifying round cf 6th.

EL is the platform to becoming a CL team. If we missed out, we'd need to cull our squad by another 4-5 senior players than we are planning to, both for financial and reasons of squad harmony (you can't keep 4 senior fullbacks with just one game per week etc.). We'd be downgrading ourselves and would then need to upgrade if we qualified again.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Whilst mathematically possible, we have a chance. We still have an easier run in than Man Utd, Liverpool and even Southampton. If we win at the weekend for example and Man Utd and Liverpool draw with eachother, then the gap between us and top four drops down to 4 points. Man Utd then next month have to play Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea and Everton away. Liverpool then have Arsenal away following playing Man Utd. We have Burnley, which will be difficult but a win there with Liverpool potentially dropping points and we are right back in it.

Pressure will be on them teams, more so than us I believe. If anything, when watching Premier League, never say never. From Aguerooooooooo in the 93rd minute or a Dwight Gayle double shooting down Liverpool. You cannot underestimate the unpredictability of this league.

The league is actually very predictable. The final positions of teams corresponds almost exactly to wage bills.

 

[braineclipse]

The league is actually very predictable. The final positions of teams corresponds almost exactly to wage bills.

Not entirely true I think.

Where there are large gaps in wage budgets, sure. Manchester United will finish above Burnley just about every time.

Where there are smaller gaps, "corresponds almost exactly" really seems a considerable exaggeration to me.

Predicting that a team in the top 5 on wage budget will finish in the top half will correspond almost exactly. Similarly bottom half for a team with one of the 5 smallest budgets. But predicting 4th/5th or 17/18th based on wage budget is far from exact. Reflected in the odds given on league finishes from bookmakers.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Not entirely true I think.

Where there are large gaps in wage budgets, sure. Manchester United will finish above Burnley just about every time.

Where there are smaller gaps, "corresponds almost exactly" really seems a considerable exaggeration to me.

Predicting that a team in the top 5 on wage budget will finish in the top half will correspond almost exactly. Similarly bottom half for a team with one of the 5 smallest budgets. But predicting 4th/5th or 17/18th based on wage budget is far from exact. Reflected in the odds given on league finishes from bookmakers.

What are the wage bills in order do you reckon? I'd imagine something like

Chelsea
City
-----(big gap)
United
Arsenal
-----(gap)
Liverpool
Spurs
----(big gap)
West Ham
Saudi Sportswashing Machine
Everton
QPR
Southampton
Swansea
Stoke
Hull
West Brom
Villa
Sunderland
----=(gap)
Palace
Leicester
Burnley

Look familiar?

Southampton, Swansea and Palace overachieve; QPR underachieve; but that's about it

 

[billyiddo]

The Telegraph seem to think that City and United are ahead of Arsenal who are ahead of Chelsea (re wages)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...eas-for-first-time-in-more-than-a-decade.html

Though there aren't any official figures for this season available so it's all guess work really

 

[Mr_B]

We'd need to drop to 8th to miss out on Europe (assuming Arsenal or Liverpool will win the cup) - so lose 8 points compared to Stoke over the last 9 matches. 7th would just give us an extra qualifying round cf 6th.

EL is the platform to becoming a CL team. If we missed out, we'd need to cull our squad by another 4-5 senior players than we are planning to, both for financial and reasons of squad harmony (you can't keep 4 senior fullbacks with just one game per week etc.). We'd be downgrading ourselves and would then need to upgrade if we qualified again.

I couldn't disagree more with this statement, EL is the biggest hindrance there is to becoming a CL team, when we qualified for the CL, that season we had no european involvement, look how liverpool almost won the league last season with no european competition and manyoo this season with no euro games find themselves in the top 4 again.
Players don't want to play in the EL, they won't come to us to take part in it, and as for culling players, I'd argue we need to do that anyway and the extra wages you pay doesn't pay for the revenue you get from the EL games.

in 10 years people will look back at the defunct europa league and say in amazement there was a tournament as badly designed as that

 

[jts1882]

The EL has been a handicap the last two seasons: ten (?) league losses and the West Ham draw adds up to a large fraction of points dropped, especially in home games we were expected to win. On the other hand, if we can't handle games in Europe, what is the point of qualifying for the CL? Money only? I think the EL has to be considered part of the learning curve, the ability to play twice a week.

One thing with having so many young players in the squad is the potential for improvement. Only a few will improve substantially, we can argue over which, but many of them will be able to do a decent job for a few years. That means we can focus our transfer spending more, either on weak spots or on an opportunistic signing (e.g. RvdV). We can keep more continuity and even those who don't make it will bring in useful money.

 

[Lilywhite]

Kane is the best forward England has produced since Sheringham and Shearer. Mason will IMO be Gerrard's heir in England's CM (next to Henderson), and I think Dier and Stone will be England's CB partnership for most of the next decade. And Bentaleb I expect will be at Madrid within 3-4 seasons.

I was thinking more Onomah, Winks, Oduwa, Pritchard, Alli, Yahaya, Veljkovic, 2CV and Kyle Walker II etc though. They are supposed to be the real golden generation.

Wow that's just unbelievably biased mate. I like to think I'm fair when judging us and others, you've gone to other extreme! Kane has been class and I love him but it's four months of top form after being cast aside by a number of (loan) clubs and managers in recent seasons. Owen and Rooney had been to World Cups and played big parts in Liverpool and United trophy winning teams by his current age. Also there's Sturridge who when fit is second or third best striker in the league. Kane has a long, long way to go before being compared to those.

Mason I love for the bite he has added to our otherwise soft as fudge team and being a local boy done good but he's really limited as a footballer. I'd like to think Poch keeps him in the squad for the foreseeable future cos he's someone you want in your 18 but we need to upgrade on him if we want to improve.

Dier has such a long way to go it isn't even worth discussing his true level of potential yet. He's had some good games and his winning goal at Wet Sham will live long in the memory but he makes lots of mistakes. You'd need to have four hands to count the errors he's made in recent big games vs Liverpool, Chelsea & United.

I do like Bentaleb too but like Dier he has made some shocking errors in the recent big matches, almost always down to concentration or decision making. Real Madrid probably don't even know who he is yet despite their love of all things Spurs!

But yes the stiffs look fudging talented, best crop we've had in decades. Heres hoping they get nurtured well.

COYS

 

[braineclipse]

What are the wage bills in order do you reckon? I'd imagine something like

Chelsea
City
-----(big gap)
United
Arsenal
-----(gap)
Liverpool
Spurs
----(big gap)
West Ham
Saudi Sportswashing Machine
Everton
QPR
Southampton
Swansea
Stoke
Hull
West Brom
Villa
Sunderland
----=(gap)
Palace
Leicester
Burnley

Look familiar?

Southampton, Swansea and Palace overachieve; QPR underachieve; but that's about it

Instead of "reckoning" how about just googling and using an actual source?

No good sources for the current season I get. Never any entirely reliable sources, but financialfairplay.co.uk fairly regularly post wages to table figures like these:

These are just the first two I found off google, so fairly random. Lines show significant changes in position compared to wage budget. I think those figures illustrate my point quite well.

Here's a guardian arcticle reviewing the 12/13 figures: http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/may/01/premier-league-club-accounts-debt-wages

Have a look at the data summary where they compare league position to wage budget. Only 3 teams matched up exactly. Another 4 clubs finished +/- 1 position. another 2 clubs +/- 2. 11 clubs differed 3 or more league positions from the wage position. There is a very clear correlation between wage budget and league finish, that's not the same as saying that league finishes correspond almost exactly with the wage budgets though.

 

[GrimsbyYid]

Mason. Heir to Gerard. Probably the stupidest thing I've read in a king long time.... He isnt good enough to be heir to Jenas!

 

[90291Spur]

Mason. Heir to Gerard. Probably the stupidest thing I've read in a king long time.... He isnt good enough to be heir to Jenas!

You forgot to put on the smiley emoticon so that we all know you are of course joking by comparing an really inexperienced young lad whose future and legacy is unknown (unless you are psychic) with someone whose career proved to be a disappointment.