The Rebuild

[Hotspur75]

Regardless of José being sacked or staying on for another year (I think the latter), it is clear - also judging from Hugo's post-match comments - that we are facing a serious rebuild, which typically takes at least 12-18 months if not longer. Hugo emphasizes the lack of effort of some players, highlighting that what we need is high-quality players who play for the club with heart and soul. The fact that there were so many players under Poch who combined these two assets is what made us a team/squad to be very proud of. So where to start - again, regardless of where you stand on the manager. I would say that there are only three players who definitely combine world-class quality (or close enough to it) with 100% dedication in our current squad: Kane, Son, and Reguilon. Before January, I would have added Hojbjerg to that list, but I'm not so sure anymore (quality-wise). I would give Lloris another year, maybe two. And I count on the hunger of Skipp and Sessegnon when they return to Spurs Lodge next season. That's seven names, and a fair reflection I think of the size of the rebuild that we are seeking (and dreading, to some extent, because what's going to happen in the meantime). I would keep Tanganga too. Eight.

And then? I think all the other players can justifiably be criticized for something (some for much more - Winks, Dele, Dier, Sissoko, Sanchez. Lamela too). NDombele should probably stay too, but I am not sure about his dedication nor about his capacity to really change matches from central midfield. Davies I would say could be a useful back-up, but in his LB position we've got two more talented players already. Moura is a useful squad member when he applies himself like he did in the last six weeks or so. And maybe Bergwijn should be given the benefit of the doubt, although his lack of goals and his lack of otherwise match-changing contributions is worrying more than a year after arriving.

Or is all of this knee-jerking post-trauma cynicism? I am deeply worried about the size of the task ahead for Levy (and the manager), and the time it will take for us to be competitive again.

 

[Raziel]

This is pretty much the same conversation as the "bombing out the old guard" thread

I'd say what I've learned/observed is attitude/ethic is perhaps worth more than talent, and we have a few too many comfortable players. I'd repeat what I said in the other thread, we would be absolutely mad to get rid of Lamela or Lucas this summer as they are two of the only players that fudging turn up every time

Bunch of players who haven't pushed on and/or are declining need to go
.

 

[glasgowspur]

It's not just a rebuild of the team and management that's needed, it's a thorough review of our goals over the next 12 months, 3years and 5 years and how we achieve them.

Some questions need addressed,

On field

What is our priority goal for the next season.
Top four or a trophy. Pick one and stick with it. We don't have the resources at the moment to fight on too many fronts.

Build a squad over three years to be able to compete for a trophy and top four.
Pick a trophy, FA Cup or EL/CL and jettison the other two. Concentrate on that trophy and maintaining a challenge for top four.

After three years review our progress and re evaluate where we are succeeding and where we are failing. What can we do better.

Off field,
A transfer budget that is suitable for our goals needs to be agreed.
The transfer committee doesn't seem to work or its current members aren't fit for purpose.
A decision on whether to go down the DOF route or transfer committee route needs to be taken.
Which ever one we chose needs to be able to work with the manager and understand how he wants to play. No point buying bargains if they don't fit the shape.

Our business plan is flawless, its clear and we have stuck to it through thick and thin.
I applaud that level headed and unwavering long term vision, we need something similar on the football side.
Pick a destination, plot a route and stick to it as best as you can. There will always be delays and diversions but if you plan well you can minimise it and still get there in the end.

 

[90291Spur]

The most important thing we need is more threads on the squad.

 

[Finney Is Back]

It's not just a rebuild of the team and management that's needed, it's a thorough review of our goals over the next 12 months, 3years and 5 years and how we achieve them.

Some questions need addressed,

On field

What is our priority goal for the next season.
Top four or a trophy. Pick one and stick with it. We don't have the resources at the moment to fight on too many fronts.

Build a squad over three years to be able to compete for a trophy and top four.
Pick a trophy, FA Cup or EL/CL and jettison the other two. Concentrate on that trophy and maintaining a challenge for top four.

After three years review our progress and re evaluate where we are succeeding and where we are failing. What can we do better.

Off field,
A transfer budget that is suitable for our goals needs to be agreed.
The transfer committee doesn't seem to work or its current members aren't fit for purpose.
A decision on whether to go down the DOF route or transfer committee route needs to be taken.
Which ever one we chose needs to be able to work with the manager and understand how he wants to play. No point buying bargains if they don't fit the shape.

Our business plan is flawless, its clear and we have stuck to it through thick and thin.
I applaud that level headed and unwavering long term vision, we need something similar on the football side.
Pick a destination, plot a route and stick to it as best as you can. There will always be delays and diversions but if you plan well you can minimise it and still get there in the end.

Great post sir.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

It's not just a rebuild of the team and management that's needed, it's a thorough review of our goals over the next 12 months, 3years and 5 years and how we achieve them.

Some questions need addressed,

On field

What is our priority goal for the next season.
Top four or a trophy. Pick one and stick with it. We don't have the resources at the moment to fight on too many fronts.

Build a squad over three years to be able to compete for a trophy and top four.
Pick a trophy, FA Cup or EL/CL and jettison the other two. Concentrate on that trophy and maintaining a challenge for top four.

After three years review our progress and re evaluate where we are succeeding and where we are failing. What can we do better.

Off field,
A transfer budget that is suitable for our goals needs to be agreed.
The transfer committee doesn't seem to work or its current members aren't fit for purpose.
A decision on whether to go down the DOF route or transfer committee route needs to be taken.
Which ever one we chose needs to be able to work with the manager and understand how he wants to play. No point buying bargains if they don't fit the shape.

Our business plan is flawless, its clear and we have stuck to it through thick and thin.
I applaud that level headed and unwavering long term vision, we need something similar on the football side.
Pick a destination, plot a route and stick to it as best as you can. There will always be delays and diversions but if you plan well you can minimise it and still get there in the end.

I agree with most of that BUT the biggest unknown quantity in all of that is your managers ability. All other parts could be working smoothly but if you manager is not doing it, it falls down. And when it does it feels like you're just on a constant reset.

So much of football from the players pov is psychological. Lots of other areas have been evened up. I personally think a different manager could do better with this group. Some 100% need to leave, but there are no reason the forwards and midfielders we have available aren't capable. Its the buy-in, the culture, the close knit family feeling that Jose has failed to capture. We had that with Poch and other managers have success with it BUT you don't always know at the appointment stage whether that's what you are going to get. 1 or 2 years later you find out.

 

[glasgowspur]

I agree with most of that BUT the biggest unknown quantity in all of that is your managers ability. All other parts could be working smoothly but if you manager is not doing it, it falls down. And when it does it feels like you're just on a constant reset.

So much of football from the players pov is psychological. Lots of other areas have been evened up. I personally think a different manager could do better with this group. Some 400% need to leave, but there are no reason the forwards and midfielders we have available aren't capable. Its the buy-in, the culture, the close knit family feeling that Jose has failed to capture. We had that with Poch and other managers have success with it BUT you don't always know at the appointment stage whether that's what you are going to get. 1 or 2 years later you find out.

It's my biggest frustration with Levy, each new manager is the polar opposite of the last.
The team was built to play in a certain way and rather than look for someone to continue in a similar vein we bring in a manager who is Used to a totally different way.
There's no continuity of approach.

 

[Baleforce]

It's my biggest frustration with Levy, each new manager is the polar opposite of the last.
The team was built to play in a certain way and rather than look for someone to continue in a similar vein we bring in a manager who is Used to a totally different way.
There's no continuity of approach.

but also, each new manager has been brought in to address Levy's perceived idea of where previous ones have failed, Sugar did the same thing actually

Jose, getting teams over the line, Poch, being more open to transfer committee signings, AVB, adding a higher level of tactical insight, Redknapp, motivating the players, Ramos, a higher level of tactical insight, Jol, cheering everybody up a bit, Santini, winning things, Hoddle, not being an arsenal legend, Graham, not being a commuter, Gross, not being British, Francis, not being a Spurs legend, Ossie, not being a criminal...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

but also, each new manager has been brought in to address Levy's perceived idea of where previous ones have failed, Sugar did the same thing actually

Jose, getting teams over the line, Poch, being more open to transfer committee signings, AVB, adding a higher level of tactical insight, Redknapp, motivating the players, Ramos, a higher level of tactical insight, Jol, cheering everybody up a bit, Santini, winning things, Hoddle, not being an arsenal legend, Graham, not being a commuter, Gross, not being British, Francis, not being a Spurs legend, Ossie, not being a criminal...

It’s pretty standard for a club to flip flop on managerial styles

 

[Dicko]

I'm still gutted we even need a rebuild. Jose said we had the squad. I was sold on him maybe adding a few additions and making us more solid again. Yet a year later and we now have no defence (bar Reggie), Need new CMs that have some composure/passing ability AND it looks like (assuming this rebuild will take a long time) might not even include Kane and Son. Gut wrenching that we got so close to getting things right but always had the last piece of the puzzle missing.

 

[Raziel]

It's not just a rebuild of the team and management that's needed, it's a thorough review of our goals over the next 12 months, 3years and 5 years and how we achieve them.

Some questions need addressed,

On field

What is our priority goal for the next season.
Top four or a trophy. Pick one and stick with it. We don't have the resources at the moment to fight on too many fronts.
.

I just want to comment on this one
- I don't think we can compete for 4 things at same time
- But I think it's #1 PL top 4, #2 Any trophy (determine based on luck of draw, if the B team gets you to knockout stages, etc.)

I think the being willing to lose any game is a dangerous mentality to build.

 

[glasgowspur]

I just want to comment on this one
- I don't think we can compete for 4 things at same time
- But I think it's #1 PL top 4, #2 Any trophy (determine based on luck of draw, if the B team gets you to knockout stages, etc.)

I think the being willing to lose any game is a dangerous meteorology to build.

Yeah, bad phrasing. Obviously you don't go out to lose, but I wouldn't risk any of the top say 15/18 in the squad in the cups we decided to not go for, at least not until the later stages should we get there.

 

[billyiddo]

Yeah, bad phrasing. Obviously you don't go out to lose, but I wouldn't risk any of the top say 15/18 in the squad in the cups we decided to not go for, at least not until the later stages should we get there.

It's why Klopp has boyed off the domestic cups

 

[Bishop]

It’s pretty standard for a club to flip flop on managerial styles

Usually not the successful ones though. They tend to appoint managers of the same thought process. If it doesn't work they move on and get another manager of that ilk.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Usually not the successful ones though. They tend to appoint managers of the same thought process. If it doesn't work they move on and get another manager of that ilk.

But every club may have a different view of success

 

[AdamB]

I'm still gutted we even need a rebuild. Jose said we had the squad. I was sold on him maybe adding a few additions and making us more solid again. Yet a year later and we now have no defence (bar Reggie), Need new CMs that have some composure/passing ability AND it looks like (assuming this rebuild will take a long time) might not even include Kane and Son. Gut wrenching that we got so close to getting things right but always had the last piece of the puzzle missing.

I dont think we need a rebuild.

Lloris, Reguilon, Hojbjerg, Ndombele, Dele, Bale, Son, Kane is the core of a top 4 standard team.

We then have some reasonable squad players: Aurier, Lo Celso, Bergwijn, ably complemented by some promising young players in Rodon, Skipp (next year), Sessegnon (next year) and Tanganga. Even Davies compares well against most back-up LBs in the PL and Dier is 4th choice standard CB (though he wouldnt want that role). Players like Moura, Lamela, Sanchez have failed too often and could be replaced.

The problems which we have are:
- in one area of the pitch (CB) we're desperately short
- we have no system which makes the players better as a team compared to how they are as individuals

We just need (i) a manager who can install a way of playing, (ii) to sign 2-3 CBs and then (iii) refresh/replace some of squad players (Dier, Davies, Moura, lamela, Sanchez, Toby etc). (i) and (ii) are urgent, (iii) is something which can be done over the course of 2-4 windows

 

[Lemonade Money]

I dont think we need a rebuild.

Lloris, Reguilon, Hojbjerg, Ndombele, Dele, Bale, Son, Kane is the core of a top 4 standard team.

We then have some reasonable squad players: Aurier, Lo Celso, Bergwijn, ably complemented by some promising young players in Rodon, Skipp (next year), Sessegnon (next year) and Tanganga. Even Davies compares well against most back-up LBs in the PL and Dier is 4th choice standard CB (though he wouldnt want that role). Players like Moura, Lamela, Sanchez have failed too often and could be replaced.

The problems which we have are:
- in one area of the pitch (CB) we're desperately short
- we have no system which makes the players better as a team compared to how they are as individuals

We just need (i) a manager who can install a way of playing, (ii) to sign 2-3 CBs and then (iii) refresh/replace some of squad players (Dier, Davies, Moura, lamela, Sanchez, Toby etc). (i) and (ii) are urgent, (iii) is something which can be done over the course of 2-4 windows

You get the right manager in, and this is actually potentially a really good job for someone. Add a few right players, lose a few right players, and performance could go through the roof. I wouldn't include Moura in that though. And Lamela seems happy being a part time Spurs legend.

 

[harr1984]

I dont think we need a rebuild.

Lloris, Reguilon, Hojbjerg, Ndombele, Dele, Bale, Son, Kane is the core of a top 4 standard team.

We then have some reasonable squad players: Aurier, Lo Celso, Bergwijn, ably complemented by some promising young players in Rodon, Skipp (next year), Sessegnon (next year) and Tanganga. Even Davies compares well against most back-up LBs in the PL and Dier is 4th choice standard CB (though he wouldnt want that role). Players like Moura, Lamela, Sanchez have failed too often and could be replaced.

The problems which we have are:
- in one area of the pitch (CB) we're desperately short
- we have no system which makes the players better as a team compared to how they are as individuals

We just need (i) a manager who can install a way of playing, (ii) to sign 2-3 CBs and then (iii) refresh/replace some of squad players (Dier, Davies, Moura, lamela, Sanchez, Toby etc). (i) and (ii) are urgent, (iii) is something which can be done over the course of 2-4 windows

I think you’re being generous. Lloris doesn’t seem to be the keeper he was, Dele hasn’t been very good for a couple of years except for the odd moment - yes it has to be taken into account he has been played out of position for some of that time and not featured as regularly but you don’t know if he will ever get back to those early levels - mentally I’m not convinced about him anymore. Bale has had a few good games against average opposition and is not getting any younger. We have a few very good first choice players, but as soon as we have to rely on a few of the squad players we get let down time and time again. I’m bored of hearing we have a very good squad, if the big players have an off day or don’t feature the squad players all too frequently don’t put their hands up to perform - they let Poch down and a lot of the same faces have done the same here.....

 

[Bishop]

I dont think we need a rebuild.

Lloris, Reguilon, Hojbjerg, Ndombele, Dele, Bale, Son, Kane is the core of a top 4 standard team.

We then have some reasonable squad players: Aurier, Lo Celso, Bergwijn, ably complemented by some promising young players in Rodon, Skipp (next year), Sessegnon (next year) and Tanganga. Even Davies compares well against most back-up LBs in the PL and Dier is 4th choice standard CB (though he wouldnt want that role). Players like Moura, Lamela, Sanchez have failed too often and could be replaced.

The problems which we have are:
- in one area of the pitch (CB) we're desperately short
- we have no system which makes the players better as a team compared to how they are as individuals

We just need (i) a manager who can install a way of playing, (ii) to sign 2-3 CBs and then (iii) refresh/replace some of squad players (Dier, Davies, Moura, lamela, Sanchez, Toby etc). (i) and (ii) are urgent, (iii) is something which can be done over the course of 2-4 windows

The squad needs slashing which constitutes a rebuild for me.

Lloris is no longer a shining star and I think it is time for us to seriously look at replacing him. Initially under Mourinho he had a renaissance but he's reverting to the poor mistake laden Lloris again.

Dier
Sanchez
Davies
Lamela
Moura
Dele
Hart
Sissoko
Winks
Bergwijn*
Doherty*

Any one of them could leave and we wouldn't miss them. Certain combinations could even be replaced by a single player and we would have a better outcome. So we potentially cut cut the chaff and end up with a smaller and higher quality squad.

*to be assessed at the end of the season potentially given another season to see if they cut the mustard. Bergwijn especially if under a different more progressive manager.

 

[AdamB]

The squad needs slashing which constitutes a rebuild for me.

Lloris is no longer a shining star and I think it is time for us to seriously look at replacing him. Initially under Mourinho he had a renaissance but he's reverting to the poor mistake laden Lloris again.

Dier
Sanchez
Davies
Lamela
Moura
Dele
Hart
Sissoko
Winks
Bergwijn*
Doherty*

Any one of them could leave and we wouldn't miss them. Certain combinations could even be replaced by a single player and we would have a better outcome. So we potentially cut cut the chaff and end up with a smaller and higher quality squad.

*to be assessed at the end of the season potentially given another season to see if they cut the mustard. Bergwijn especially if under a different more progressive manager.

I think you're more less saying what I am. The core of the best 11 is fine but then there's a lot of squad players who are very average