The London Taxpayers' Stadium Shambles

[jimmyb]

Re: O/T West Ham Get Olympic Stadium

well put jimmyb, i never understood why people always harped on about the 400m figure for the stadium build, that is the total money involved in the project but it is not the cost of the build, we buy the land and then sell some off to a supermarket, so if we buy that strip of land for 10m and then sell it for 25m the figures would say 35m but infact we earnt 15m on it.

I am not saying this is the exact figures involved with us, i have some experince in construction having been a foreman on sites, a much smaller scale but still the costs for the stadium build can be no where near the 400m figure people have been saying for years, just does not make sense to me.

Yep. Completely uninformed guess............but we could eventually make a profit of £50-100 million on the enabling development. That would take a big bite out of the £250 million (give or take) cost of the stadium.

As to the cost of the stadium, you're quite right. This is a great time to be building, if we can.

Am still shocked and disgusted people would even consider moving to stratford we are tottenham for fudges sake.

100%.

West Ham or gold and sullivan have done amazing on this, they will sell upton park, then use that money to imrpove the first team, then sell to Qatar or someone. I do not fear west ham. Once we have our stadium we will be able to fight man u, arse and chelsea on their termss, west ham will just be another one, so fudging what. We focus on ourselves we will be alright.

Any money left over will presumably be swallowed up by West Ham's sizeable debts.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Re: O/T West Ham Get Olympic Stadium

well put jimmyb, i never understood why people always harped on about the 400m figure for the stadium build, that is the total money involved in the project but it is not the cost of the build, we buy the land and then sell some off to a supermarket, so if we buy that strip of land for 10m and then sell it for 25m the figures would say 35m but infact we earnt 15m on it.

I am not saying this is the exact figures involved with us, i have some experince in construction having been a foreman on sites, a much smaller scale but still the costs for the stadium build can be no where near the 400m figure people have been saying for years, just does not make sense to me.

Am still shocked and disgusted people would even consider moving to stratford we are tottenham for fudges sake.

West Ham or gold and sullivan have done amazing on this, they will sell upton park, then use that money to imrpove the first team, then sell to Qatar or someone. I do not fear west ham. Once we have our stadium we will be able to fight man u, arse and chelsea on their termss, west ham will just be another one, so fudging what. We focus on ourselves we will be alright.

I went on a tour of the the Olympic park before the olympics and was less then impressed. Would have been sad if chelsea had got battersea power station as that is so iconic. But chelsea are fudged because they did not get that or Earls court, i find that quite funny.

I never wanted us to move to the OS but am annoyed that the Spammers have got such a good deal whilst all we've got from the Mayor' office so far is a £41m regeneration scheme for the Tottenham area. Afaik Crossrail 2 is not likely to stop off at Northumberland Park and even if that is changed CR2 won't be up and running until about 2030.

In the long run we will have a more profitable stadium but in the meantime we will probably have to pay off a debt similar to the £260m ARSEnal took on when they moved to the Emirates, plus I doubt that the apartments we are building next to the new stadium will make quite as much money as Highbury Square did during the height of the property boom.

I went to the OS during the Olympics and thought that it was great but I was probably influenced by the fact that I was watching some of the World's greatest athletes rather than a 2nd rate football club. Hopefully the Spammers will continue to struggle in their new home.

 

[jts1882]

Re: O/T West Ham Get Olympic Stadium

I wonder how good a deal this is for West Ham. Use of an iconic stadium for £15 million upfront and a nominal rent seems fantastic but ....

1. They will pay £213m (£15m plus £2m x 99) and at the end of 99 years they have nothing, having sold off their stadium.

2. They will have excess capacity and need to sell cheap tickets and give away tickets. The key to maximising stadium revenue is scarcity. Why buy a season ticket if you can get tickets for the games you want?

3. They no longer keep all revenues from the stadium. They can't get a lucrative naming rights deal on a new stadium, but as what the could get on an old stadium is limited this might be neutral.

4. The stadium is not a football stadium. While sayings its not fit for purpose may be an exaggeration, its certainly not an intimate football stadium. This could affect crowds and revenues adversely after the initial interest​

On the other hand ...

1. The revenues from selling Upton Park will pay-off their debts, although this will presumably go to S&G. The development could add to their revenue stream.

2. They will get improved corporate revenues. Stratford is good for the city and canary wharf and corporate entertaining is more than just about football.

3. The cheap tickets for kids could help grow their fan base long-term.

4. The iconic stadium could attract a sugar-daddy buyer from overseas. A rich owner could offer the public authorities something appealing to let them get complete control. Obviously not immediately, but if its costing the tax payer in ten years there might be a change of opinion.​

On balance the positives seem mainly ifs and maybes while there are significant downsides. I would say its good for the owners but not for the fans.

 

[Baleforce]

Re: O/T West Ham Get Olympic Stadium

if they are smart they will redevelop the boleyn into something that offers a constant revenue stream rather than just flogging it for housing

 

[jts1882]

Re: O/T West Ham Get Olympic Stadium

... I imagine, they'll be able to make a sizeable profit from the sale of the Boleyn Ground (350 new homes in a trailer park).

No cheap jokes please [-X

 

[johnola]

Re: O/T West Ham Get Olympic Stadium

Ultimately it is great news for London football in the round but Orient will pay the price.

 

[P.D.]

Re: O/T West Ham Get Olympic Stadium

If they can't hold concerts in it then why would they be able to host conferences etc and keep all the money from those? Doesnt add up to me. I would guess they can't use it for that sort of thing in the week.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: O/T West Ham Get Olympic Stadium

A few things I've learned from this thread and from listening to West Ham fans on the radio and on tv:

1. Jimmyb is the fudging man when it comes to any stadium related discussion! The guy is a fountain of knowledge!

2. People need to chill out worrying about West Ham. Sure this move MAY be a good thing for them, but they could also go the same way as Coventry. The only way they will overtake us and gain more fans is through success on the pitch. They may be in the Championship by the time they move into the OS. How has Arsenal's stadium worked out for them? They used to win doubles and get to Champions League finals before they moved. A stadium by itself is not going to propel West Ham into the big time.

3. West Ham's fans are divided about the move. Some see it as the only way to move forward, others think it will kill the atmosphere at home games.

4. West Ham could not give two bricks about what happens to Leyton Orient. Yeah sure you have to look after number 1, but were talking about the livelihood of another football club in the area. Orient are the ones I feel the most for.

5. Just exactly how have West Ham managed to pull this off? Getting taxpayers to fund their stadium for the most part. A few backhanders possibly?

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: O/T West Ham Get Olympic Stadium

well put jimmyb, i never understood why people always harped on about the 400m figure for the stadium build, that is the total money involved in the project but it is not the cost of the build, we buy the land and then sell some off to a supermarket, so if we buy that strip of land for 10m and then sell it for 25m the figures would say 35m but infact we earnt 15m on it.

I am not saying this is the exact figures involved with us, i have some experince in construction having been a foreman on sites, a much smaller scale but still the costs for the stadium build can be no where near the 400m figure people have been saying for years, just does not make sense to me.

Am still shocked and disgusted people would even consider moving to stratford we are tottenham for fudges sake.

West Ham or gold and sullivan have done amazing on this, they will sell upton park, then use that money to imrpove the first team, then sell to Qatar or someone. I do not fear west ham. Once we have our stadium we will be able to fight man u, arse and chelsea on their termss, west ham will just be another one, so fudging what. We focus on ourselves we will be alright.

I went on a tour of the the Olympic park before the olympics and was less then impressed. Would have been sad if chelsea had got battersea power station as that is so iconic. But chelsea are fudged because they did not get that or Earls court, i find that quite funny.

People who live in Essex will find it easier to get to than WHL?

 

[SteveAWOL]

Re: O/T West Ham Get Olympic Stadium

A few things I've learned from this thread and from listening to West Ham fans on the radio and on tv:
...
5. Just exactly how have West Ham managed to pull this off? Getting taxpayers to fund their stadium for the most part. A few backhanders possibly?

It is ironic that back in 2006 WHU had offered to contribute £100m towards fitting retractable seating in the Olympic Stadium and now the tax payer is basically having to foot the bill to remove the only part of the OS which was intended to be permanent (the 25,000 capacity lower tier) because Jowell and Livingstone decided that the OS should never be home to a football club.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: O/T West Ham Get Olympic Stadium

It is ironic that back in 2006 WHU had offered to contribute £100m towards fitting retractable seating in the Olympic Stadium and now the tax payer is basically having to foot the bill to remove the only part of the OS which was intended to be permanent (the 25,000 capacity lower tier) because Jowell and Livingstone decided that the OS should never be home to a football club.

None of the individuals involved will ever be held accountable, they'll just continue to get lauded for bringing the Olympics to London. Once you're involved in something at a high enough level you can pretty much do what you want. It's not your money and you'll get handsomely paid whatever the outcome.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: O/T West Ham Get Olympic Stadium

People who live in Essex will find it easier to get to than WHL?

well people who live in wales will find it easier to get to swindon, im not sure i understand the analogy

also i do not give a fudge about anyone from essex because anyone who lives there is a cun*

 

[Baleforce]

Re: O/T West Ham Get Olympic Stadium

I live in essex

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: O/T West Ham Get Olympic Stadium

I live in essex

nuff said

 

[NYSpur]

Re: O/T West Ham Get Olympic Stadium

FFP excludes infrastructure costs (stadiums, training grounds etc).

Well that makes no sense! Spurs sell up tomorrow and new owner pays for new stadium in cash, thereby increasing revenue to club without touching regular revenue streams. These can then be used for player purchases, thereby giving the club an unfair advantage over a club not in similarly prosperous circumstances.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: O/T West Ham Get Olympic Stadium

well people who live in wales will find it easier to get to swindon, im not sure i understand the analogy

also i do not give a fudge about anyone from essex because anyone who lives there is a cun*

Basically, it's more convenient FOR THEM.

Not saying I agree with it.

You can't put a price on staying in Tottenham.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: O/T West Ham Get Olympic Stadium

Basically, it's more convenient FOR THEM.

Not saying I agree with it.

You can't put a price on staying in Tottenham.

Quite right.

Stratford is 40 minutes along the Central Line from me. A good 20-30 minutes less than my journey to WHL.

But I couldn't give a fudge about that.

And nor should any proper Spurs fan care about a slightly longer journey to the place where Tottenham Hotspur rightly belongs.

 

[chicken_badge]

Re: O/T West Ham Get Olympic Stadium

Basically, it's more convenient FOR THEM.

Not saying I agree with it.

You can't put a price on staying in Tottenham.

It was about £200m if the memory serves correct
But anyway, its not my money even if it is my club, we're not moving and the debate is over. New stadium for us is on the way, 2016 is it now? That's three years away and that's nothing. Three years ago was 2010 and thats a very recent and relevant part in our current story.

I get the comment about Essex, but lets face it we all know stacks of people who live in London but prefer to support Manchester United. While West Ham are picking up a few more people from Wanstead our club will continue to go and we'll be selling shirts in Glasgow, Beijing and Sydney. Not that I'm up for world wide glory hunters but the fact is we are picking up these followers and are very much a step ahead of West Ham.

Yes they might get an investor but so might we. And anyway that billionaire Icelandic McVities bloke didnt really do much for getting them ahead of us other than number of times relegated.

 

[Roy1983]

Re: O/T West Ham Get Olympic Stadium

i totally agree, i think moving to stratford would have been great for us

Christ ALMIGHTY!

 

[Roy1983]

Re: O/T West Ham Get Olympic Stadium

Quite right.

Stratford is 40 minutes along the Central Line from me. A good 20-30 minutes less than my journey to WHL.

But I couldn't give a fudge about that.

And nor should any proper Spurs fan care about a slightly longer journey to the place where Tottenham Hotspur rightly belongs.

Absolutely. We are where we belong.