The 'let's blame everything on Dawson' thread

[spitshine]

Lets be honest he is the blame for the majority of goals especially important games. A knock on effect of this, in particular, his lack of pace, is the reason behind Lloris rushing out from goal on a regular basis as he clearly dosen't trust him.
Also, AVB clearly didn't rate him as high as he was only too willing to sell him to QPR in August

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

I think it's ironic that some on here have no problem jumping on Dawson's back, but cannot accept any criticism of their own favourites, such as Walker. He makes mistake after horrendous mistake in big moments in big matches, but they continue to defend him. I wonder about the age of some members of this forum. Some seem to be more enamoured with their favourite player than the team. I imagine them as 13 year olds with posters of Dembele, Walker et al on their bedroom walls. :lol:

 

[braineclipse]

Walker was one of the most heavily criticized players on here last season I think.

Accepting for the sake of argument that he made a mistake against Arsenal what was the last big moment big game mistake from him before that? And what was the one before that?

 

[DubaiSpur]

Against any sides outside the top five, he usually looks more than decent: strong, composed, great in the air, solid on the ground.

Against a top-five team with quick, inventive forwards, he more often than not gets torn a new one.

And should we continue to play a high line, I suspect he will continue to get torn a new one. Let's face it: he's your typical lionhearted English defender, with all the qualities that tag brings, but he's not quick by any means, or particularly quick-thinking when it comes to positioning himself to prevent breakaways.

Give him a deep defensive line with someone like King alongside him and he's GHod. Give him an average team to play against and he comes through more often than not. Do not, however , play him against the top sides if there are available alternatives . Simple as that.

 

[Raziel]

I think it's ironic that some on here have no problem jumping on Dawson's back, but cannot accept any criticism of their own favourites, such as Walker. He makes mistake after horrendous mistake in big moments in big matches, but they continue to defend him. I wonder about the age of some members of this forum. Some seem to be more enamoured with their favourite player than the team. I imagine them as 13 year olds with posters of Dembele, Walker et al on their bedroom walls. :lol:

Actually Walker is right there with Dawson as being apparently not good enough for a lot of folks on this board

The OP is actually right, Spurs fans, especially on GG like a spacegoat, it's interesting, the 4 or so games before the Scum game, people talked about Dawson, Vlad, etc. yet it was clearly obvious Rose was the weakest link (but like all Spurs players who get injured, he suddenly was much better in memory than reality).

I think people don't get how defensive systems work (or maybe teams in general), everyone here wants the next Kompany/Vidic/etc. while a lot of teams create very good defensive units without a WC defender, our Keeper, RB and CB options are good enough, unless you have a Titus Bramble type scenario where the player is continuously/obviously causing goals you need to look at the coaching/setup for your problem, i.e. if a player isn't the fastest, how does positioning and the system (where is his cover) compensate for that.

Dawson is a good enough player, and comparisons to Ameobi is actually just insulting. The thread might be OTT, but to the poster that talked about United fans patience with their team/manager, maybe there is a lesson there for us.

 

[thfcsteff]

I'm sure I'm on your list here KD, not sure this deserves it's own thread personally (if we were to make new threads for every single time there were disagreements over players/managers it would be quite a scene around here)…


I'll address my comments with regards to the first goal only briefly, as they're addressed to death in the OMT for the Goons game. But it is an opinion I have. I felt he was largely responsible for the chance opening up as it did. I made my points, supported my view (and others, such as Robspur, disagree, and that's great, football is all about opinions that's one of the reasons we love it). And I feel he has been caught several times this season. He is a WONDERFUL ambassador for our club, a true 100%er and a lovely man, but I feel he has some faults which we can upgrade on. Raziel mentioned Danny Rose above. I feel he is flawed, and have felt so for some time. Again, both players get my support when they wear our shirt, but in a post-match analysis, I fail to see why criticism should cause such 'outrage'. It's an opinion. That's all. Some agree, some don't.

 

[thfcsteff]

Actually Walker is right there with Dawson as being apparently not good enough for a lot of folks on this board

The OP is actually right, Spurs fans, especially on GG like a spacegoat, it's interesting, the 4 or so games before the Scum game, people talked about Dawson, Vlad, etc. yet it was clearly obvious Rose was the weakest link (but like all Spurs players who get injured, he suddenly was much better in memory than reality).

I think people don't get how defensive systems work (or maybe teams in general), everyone here wants the next Kompany/Vidic/etc. while a lot of teams create very good defensive units without a WC defender, our Keeper, RB and CB options are good enough, unless you have a Titus Bramble type scenario where the player is continuously/obviously causing goals you need to look at the coaching/setup for your problem, i.e. if a player isn't the fastest, how does positioning and the system (where is his cover) compensate for that.

Dawson is a good enough player, and comparisons to Ameobi is actually just insulting. The thread might be OTT, but to the poster that talked about United fans patience with their team/manager, maybe there is a lesson there for us.

Let me make a point.

I have said I don't trust Rose in the past and the reaction from some folks was not dissimilar in terms of getting mightily miffed. So I personally refrained from making too many more comments about Rose. I was proven wrong by Townsend with regards to his breakthrough, and that was great, but I have long-said he does need his football brain/decision-making to improve before he can really be a top, top player. It looks like it will, which is great, but again, this is the first time in months I've re-raised my concerns; let's hope I'm not seen as 'isolating' him if you know what I mean. It's a shame. As a general point, I fail to see why we cannot make observations and criticisms? So I blame Daws for the first goal, someone else blames Walker, someone else says it was more than one player's fault, it's all discussion right? I fail to understand why it becomes 'spacegoating', etc. Let's be honest, the elephant in the room on Saturday was Roses' insane decision to do a Cryuff turn THERE, but sadly, I expect a brain fart a game from him and pray it doesn't cost us. Anyway...

 

[Nigeyman]

Against any sides outside the top five, he usually looks more than decent: strong, composed, great in the air, solid on the ground.

Against a top-five team with quick, inventive forwards, he more often than not gets torn a new one.

And should we continue to play a high line, I suspect he will continue to get torn a new one. Let's face it: he's your typical lionhearted English defender, with all the qualities that tag brings, but he's not quick by any means, or particularly quick-thinking when it comes to positioning himself to prevent breakaways.

Give him a deep defensive line with someone like King alongside him and he's GHod. Give him an average team to play against and he comes through more often than not. Do not, however , play him against the top sides if there are available alternatives . Simple as that.

pretty much this and not the captain we need.

 

[parklane1]

Against any sides outside the top five, he usually looks more than decent: strong, composed, great in the air, solid on the ground.

Against a top-five team with quick, inventive forwards, he more often than not gets torn a new one.

And should we continue to play a high line, I suspect he will continue to get torn a new one. Let's face it: he's your typical lionhearted English defender, with all the qualities that tag brings, but he's not quick by any means, or particularly quick-thinking when it comes to positioning himself to prevent breakaways.

Give him a deep defensive line with someone like King alongside him and he's GHod. Give him an average team to play against and he comes through more often than not. Do not, however , play him against the top sides if there are available alternatives . Simple as that.

Spot on.

 

[thfcsteff]

When did i say that?

He should absolutely be criticised when he's at fault for a goal, has a bad performance or makes a mistake. Some (like yourself) will not only do that, but will criticise him for others mistakes and it's rather tedious. Some find a way, no matter how much of a stretch it is, to lay the blame his way no matter what.

But it's YOUR OPINION versus ANOTHER OPINION. I have no issue whatsoever with you disagreeing on who was 'responsible' for Saturday's first concession, but what I cannot fathom is why opinions other than yours are treated with such fierce contempt? I honestly don't get it. In ANY situation (other than the Rose one Saturday come to think of it!) there are usually more than one way someone can look at a situation, two it unfolded and who was primarily responsible. It's what makes the game great. It's no different to criticism of an album or a film; there is no 'wrong' opinion as long as the opinion can be supported by something. I'm sure you'd agree with that comment, right?

 

[Nigeyman]

Actually Walker is right there with Dawson as being apparently not good enough for a lot of folks on this board

The OP is actually right, Spurs fans, especially on GG like a spacegoat, it's interesting, the 4 or so games before the Scum game, people talked about Dawson, Vlad, etc. yet it was clearly obvious Rose was the weakest link (but like all Spurs players who get injured, he suddenly was much better in memory than reality).

I think people don't get how defensive systems work (or maybe teams in general), everyone here wants the next Kompany/Vidic/etc. while a lot of teams create very good defensive units without a WC defender, our Keeper, RB and CB options are good enough, unless you have a Titus Bramble type scenario where the player is continuously/obviously causing goals you need to look at the coaching/setup for your problem, i.e. if a player isn't the fastest, how does positioning and the system (where is his cover) compensate for that.

Dawson is a good enough player, and comparisons to Ameobi is actually just insulting. The thread might be OTT, but to the poster that talked about United fans patience with their team/manager, maybe there is a lesson there for us.

patience....

he has had years.....and in that time..he has served us well.

how many times do we recycle possesion with his ridiculous hollywood diagnol long balls....what is it normally 1 in 10 chance they come off.
Not easy for me to say because I do respect the man and his service to the club....but if we want to get better sentimentality must go out of the window. No other top 8 side would put him in above the cb's that they have....thats a fact.....most other rival fans have been telling me he's not good enough for years and i would defend him.....but the truth has come home to roost with me.

not good enough for a top side.

 

[africanspurs]

Whilst I agree with the sentiment here, what relevance do his time at the club and previous performances have?

In fact, seeing as we're a club that regularly sells our good players, his longevity could be seen as evidence of a lack of ability.

what does that have to do with what he does for us on the pitch?

 

[africanspurs]

Don't think he gets more than his fair share of the blame compared to most other players.

by a select few posters i am sure he does as i have seen it

completely unfair but to be honest i think it would do everyone the world of good if dawson were to leave......as good a colossus when dealing with the brunt end of opposition attacks as we are likely to attract.........when he leaves and we start conceeding people will see the correlation...but by then they will blame someone else and say dawson would have made it worse

100% behind KingDawson on this

Dawson has been a mainstay in a STRONG tottenham defense no matter who plays ahead of him

chiriches IMO has set him up neatly, that partnership is one of the worst out there
add to that the bad form and low confidence of the team late on under AVB during the end
Vertonghen out
our possession game waned in the latter days of AVB tenure and so did our pressing


the underlined are things you could really pride avb with before things went south for him and dawson benefited

to be honest, i dont i have quite a few people on here on mute so it doesnt get my goat nearly as much as KD, not this topic anyway (i wish i could do that to admin but it doesnt make sense to be able to)

but people will dingdong on dawson, defoe, lennon (when he is not on form), townsend..........etc etc....it all goes round and round.

The mob will always have a target to burn.

 

[the dza]

but people will dingdong on dawson, defoe, lennon (when he is not on form), townsend..........etc etc....it all goes round and round.

The mob will always have a target to burn.

My brother made an interesting point to me the other day, when we were talking about Danny Rose, and it ties in with this thread a bit. He said that if we have an expensive foreign import, who doesn't play that well and makes mistakes, the fans will mostly say "just give him time." But if we have a cheap domestic signing or a young player who doesn't play that well and make mistakes, the fans (at least on the internet) will absolutely leather them. We'll see a similar thing with Sherwood too.

 

[africanspurs]

Against any sides outside the top five, he usually looks more than decent: strong, composed, great in the air, solid on the ground.

Against a top-five team with quick, inventive forwards, he more often than not gets torn a new one.

And should we continue to play a high line, I suspect he will continue to get torn a new one. Let's face it: he's your typical lionhearted English defender, with all the qualities that tag brings, but he's not quick by any means, or particularly quick-thinking when it comes to positioning himself to prevent breakaways.

Give him a deep defensive line with someone like King alongside him and he's GHod. Give him an average team to play against and he comes through more often than not. Do not, however , play him against the top sides if there are available alternatives . Simple as that.

how do you think terry, vidic, mertesacker, skertel...would do against quick footed and pacy technical players then?

they gonna twist and turn on a six pence and kick into gear ? I dont think so

i like the way though that the best teams are the ones that tear dawson a new arsehole.....not bad praise...even though damning was what was meant

i also like that its teams that are generally better overall than our team that seem to be the ones that get the best of dawson. But its dawson that doesnt belong..cause he is left holding the 'one V one' can, tracking players and knowing whats happening around him

i'm still as of now wondering why this isnt a unit thing and why dawson is the one below par...do people even watch chiriches...he plays like he hustles for monopoly cards "get out of jail free"....i'm guessing cause of his age no one cares

another thing you have to ask yourself...if dawson is not up to scratch...how come he is usually a mainstay in our defence? And one that tend to match the top teams for goals conceeded?

 

[the dza]

Dawson played his best football with Bassong as partner. It's not rocket science, if we have a slow defender who is great in the air and attacking the ball (Dawson) then he needs a quick partner who can sweep up. We currently have no quick centre-backs (people will argue Chiriches, but he ain't quick like Bassong was, Kaboul in his prime, Ledley in his prime etc).

 

[africanspurs]

My brother made an interesting point to me the other day, when we were talking about Danny Rose, and it ties in with this thread a bit. He said that if we have an expensive foreign import, who doesn't play that well and makes mistakes, the fans will mostly say "just give him time." But if we have a cheap domestic signing or a young player who doesn't play that well and make mistakes, the fans (at least on the internet) will absolutely leather them. We'll see a similar thing with Sherwood too.

100% this

i dont get that, its the complete opposite in Nigeria...we tend to praise the locals that do ANYTHING. you can stand on two feet on the football pitch..."o boy, nah Madrid you go come finish" ....instant world class

here? or at least tottenham online....if you are english you are probably in for a tough time if you cant murder a ball coming from the heavens

i am not saying that dawson is not guilty of stuff, but why is it anymore than someone else that has his traits across the league?

there is NOT ONE slow defender that can handle pacy , quick minded and technical players in this league. name ONE guy...and think it through..the first name is vidic and he got eaten by Ade on the regular...and ade isnt even the kind of trickery speedster i am thinking about

 

[africanspurs]

Dawson played his best football with Bassong as partner. It's not rocket science, if we have a slow defender who is great in the air and attacking the ball (Dawson) then he needs a quick partner who can sweep up. We currently have no quick centre-backs (people will argue Chiriches, but he ain't quick like Bassong was, Kaboul in his prime, Ledley in his prime etc).

and again THIS!!!!

 

[Nigeyman]

how do you think terry, vidic, mertesacker, skertel...would do against quick footed and pacy technical players then?

they gonna twist and turn on a six pence and kick into gear ? I dont think so

i like the way though that the best teams are the ones that tear dawson a new arsehole.....not bad praise...even though damning was what was meant

i also like that its teams that are generally better overall than our team that seem to be the ones that get the best of dawson. But its dawson that doesnt belong..cause he is left holding the 'one V one' can, tracking players and knowing whats happening around him

i'm still as of now wondering why this isnt a unit thing and why dawson is the one below par...do people even watch chiriches...he plays like he hustles for monopoly cards "get out of jail free"....i'm guessing cause of his age no one cares

another thing you have to ask yourself...if dawson is not up to scratch...how come he is usually a mainstay in our defence? And one that tend to match the top teams for goals conceeded?

Dont think were gonna get anywhere positive with this thread tbh....

I remember having a conversation with you regarding Dawson not long ago.......just gonna end up going round in circles.

I admit I amongst others have probably been to harsh on Daws and I am also guilty of overlooking other defenders mistakes.......you I might argue in turn are overlooking all the crucial times he has cost us.

For me I have had my fill of Daws and I have already explained my reasons to you. Happy to agree to disagree....I dont actually enjoy pasting our players....and many more are culpable other than Daws for some of our poor peformances I admit that.

 

[thfcsteff]

Dont think were gonna get anywhere positive with this thread tbh....

I remember having a conversation with you regarding Dawson not long ago.......just gonna end up going round in circles.

I admit I amongst others have probably been to harsh on Daws and I am also guilty of overlooking other defenders mistakes.......you I might argue in turn are overlooking all the crucial times he has cost us.

For me I have had my fill of Daws and I have already explained my reasons to you. Happy to agree to disagree....I dont actually enjoy pasting our players....and many more are culpable other than Daws for some of our poor peformances I admit that.

This reply is fantastic.

I agree with everything you've said here. This thread is destined to become another quicksand bog of 'you're a hypocrite'…discussion about certain topics, and certain players, is blown up into another thing altogether.