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The Goon Thread

billyiddo said:
I don't agree at all with the people who say we are the 6th best side in the league on paper and anything more than that will be a miracle - you want your team to do things well and to their best - there's no reason with the right signings/preparation we can't aim for better than where "we should be" saying otherwise is a defeatist attitude from people who are happy to accept the minimum for the team IMO
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To be fair Billy, there is a difference between being defeatist and accepting that certain things cant be defeated as things stand. As long as CFC and Emirates Marketing Project have obscenely rich benefators spunking money at them in the manner that they have done recently, we are always going to struggle.

The only way that we will manage to do so is to find, nurture and keep some amazing world class talent, and strengthen the team that way. As we know, we would then simply end up fighting a rearguard action against agents and the big clubs trying to buy them off us.

Emirates Marketing Project/chelski/anzi/PSG and the two Spanish teams, who also have significant external financial support (as well as political in their case) will continue to offer obscene salaries and pay ludicrous amounts to ringfence the worlds top talent, preventing it being spread around to level the playing field.

I for one am no less committed as a Spurs fan, and as I have said, see every new season as finally being the one where we win the double again, until its an impossibility, but I am realistic enough to look at the squads of the other teams and recognise that we don't have the best team. At best (IMO) we will be fighting for 3/4 slots with Manure, arse and possibly Saudi Sportswashing Machine, if their bubble hasn't burst yet. The battle of the wallets will decide the top slots.

I wouldn't like to think that attitude as defeatist one though.
 
Hootnow said:
Some of the excuses in this thread :ross:

The way some of you go on, its as if we're the only club which ever has any bad luck. Arsenal had an absolutely terrible summer (lost two of their best four players, lost another of the four to a season long injury), went through a ridiculously poor set of results, had about defender available for a month, had their usual knocked out of every cup in February act but then actually pulled themselves together. They also had the second most injuries in the league.

I still can't believe they lost three of the players who had them running so well last season and then still finished above us. Over 38 games, they gathered more points. So they deserved to finish there. Blaming it on a Gomes like performance from Fulop is silly.
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It doesn't disguise the fact that if Fulop had played a decent premier standard keepers game or had a Ruddy, we would have finished above them.

But he didn't and we didn't, such is life.
 
Lets compare the strength of the two squads; players i've highlighted in red for us are players who's long term future at their teams seem in doubt either due to age and injury; marginalisation or transfer requests.

Goalkeepers

Brad Friedel - Marginalised and wants out
Heurelho Gomes - Ageing
Carlo Cudicini - Ageing


Defenders

Benoit Assou-Ekotto - Steady LB
Danny Rose - Doesn't have the requirements to play LB
Kyle Walker - Excellent up and coming youngster
Sebastien Bassong - Loaned out and marginalised
Vedran Corluka - Loaned out and marginalised
Michael Dawson - Injury prone but useful
William Gallas - Ageing but useful
Younes Kaboul - Best CB
Ledley King - Injury prone but our best defender if fit
Ryan Nelsen - Too old



Midfielders

Sandro - Underused by Redknapp, but great potentially
Tom Huddlestone - Injured but a quality player
Niko Kranjcar Marginalised and wants out
Aaron Lennon - Injury prone but excellent on form
Jake Livermore - Steady and solid
Luka Modric - Midfield Playmaker who is central to our play but not spectacular. May be on his way out
Scott Parker - works hard which Looks good but ageing. Contributes little in positive play
Stephen Pienaar -Loaned out and marginalised, wants out too
Rafael Van Der Vaart - If fit an excellent AM
Gareth Bale - One of the best wingers on his day and contributes a lot in goals and assists


Strikers
Emmanuel Adebayor - Not our player yet but works and and contributes a lot in terms of goals and assists
Jermain Defoe - Wants out
Giovani Dos Santos - Marginalised and wants out
Louis Saha - Out of contract, old and not good enough for us



Arsenal Team

Goalkeepers


13 Wojciech Szczesny - Potential to be world class
21 Lukasz Fabianski - not good enough
24 Vito Mannone - Potential to be a decent player

Defenders

3 Bacary Sagna - Best RB in the leage
4 Per Mertesacker - Adapting to the PL But slow
5 Thomas Vermaelen - potential future captain for them and the best CB between the two teams at present
6 Laurent Koscielny - Rock at the heart of their defence
11 Andre Santos - Adapting well to the PL
18 Sebastien Squillaci - Ageing
20 Johan Djourou - Covers CB and DM well
25 Carl Jenkinson - Young but could be a decent player
28 Kieran Gibbs - Young but promising

Midfielders

2 Abou Diaby - Injury prone
7 Tomas Rosicky - A creative midfielder who can change games
8 Mikel Arteta - Their Modric, neat and tidy but unspectacular.
16 Aaron Ramsey - Potential to be a very good player lacking confidence at present
17 Alexandre Song - Box to box player with good defensive abilities, he links defence to midfield well
19 Jack Wheelchair - Potential to be world class, better than any attacking CM (not counting rafa as he plays AM) we have other than modric.
26 Emmanuel Frimpong - Clogger


Strikers

9 Chu-Young Park - 1 year left before he goes on National service
11 Podolski - Better than anything we have in attack
10 Robin Van Persie - Better than anything we have in attack and world class
14 Theo Walcott - On his day his pace creates opportunities but a limited player
27 Gervinho - Good technical player who will improve with more game time
29 Marouane Chamakh - hasn't adapted well

Arsenal seem a lot stronger than us in central midfield as they have the ability to replace like for like. On the wings and up front they are light but their central strikers are better than anything we have. In defence they are well set for years but their LB position could do with some solidity. I think we are edging closer to them but they still have a much more balanced squad to us. Redknapp needs to take the blame for marginalising some good youthful players we have such as corluka and bassong making us light at the back.
 
Spursalot said:
I'm not even sure he's kidding...
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It is to some degree a valid point. Its like the fascination with singing stand up if you hate Arsenal when we aren't playing them. I don't really think about Arsenal at all unless we are playing them and despite our rivalry, I don't give them much thought unless we are in direct competition with them like this season for a specific place. That's why I never bought into this mind the gap nonsense because halfway through a season means nothing to me......I would have got satisfaction from sitting there saying nothing if we had finished 3rd knowing that we had fulfilled our early season promise to probably its maximum.
 
Hootnow said:
Some of the excuses in this thread :ross:

The way some of you go on, its as if we're the only club which ever has any bad luck. Arsenal had an absolutely terrible summer (lost two of their best four players, lost another of the four to a season long injury), went through a ridiculously poor set of results, had about defender available for a month, had their usual knocked out of every cup in February act but then actually pulled themselves together. They also had the second most injuries in the league.

I still can't believe they lost three of the players who had them running so well last season and then still finished above us. Over 38 games, they gathered more points. So they deserved to finish there. Blaming it on a Gomes like performance from Fulop is silly.
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Sums it up pretty well, but you do know that someone has to be blamed its the way of the world. :)
 
punk_is_back` said:
Lets compare the strength of the two squads; players i've highlighted in red for us are players who's long term future at their teams seem in doubt either due to age and injury; marginalisation or transfer requests.

Goalkeepers

Brad Friedel - Marginalised and wants out
Heurelho Gomes - Ageing
Carlo Cudicini - Ageing


Defenders

Benoit Assou-Ekotto - Steady LB
Danny Rose - Doesn't have the requirements to play LB
Kyle Walker - Excellent up and coming youngster
Sebastien Bassong - Loaned out and marginalised
Vedran Corluka - Loaned out and marginalised
Michael Dawson - Injury prone but useful
William Gallas - Ageing but useful
Younes Kaboul - Best CB
Ledley King - Injury prone but our best defender if fit
Ryan Nelsen - Too old



Midfielders

Sandro - Underused by Redknapp, but great potentially
Tom Huddlestone - Injured but a quality player
Niko Kranjcar Marginalised and wants out
Aaron Lennon - Injury prone but excellent on form
Jake Livermore - Steady and solid
Luka Modric - Midfield Playmaker who is central to our play but not spectacular. May be on his way out
Scott Parker - works hard which Looks good but ageing. Contributes little in positive play
Stephen Pienaar -Loaned out and marginalised, wants out too
Rafael Van Der Vaart - If fit an excellent AM
Gareth Bale - One of the best wingers on his day and contributes a lot in goals and assists


Strikers
Emmanuel Adebayor - Not our player yet but works and and contributes a lot in terms of goals and assists
Jermain Defoe - Wants out
Giovani Dos Santos - Marginalised and wants out
Louis Saha - Out of contract, old and not good enough for us



Arsenal Team

Goalkeepers


13 Wojciech Szczesny - Potential to be world class
21 Lukasz Fabianski - not good enough
24 Vito Mannone - Potential to be a decent player

Defenders

3 Bacary Sagna - Best RB in the leage
4 Per Mertesacker - Adapting to the PL But slow
5 Thomas Vermaelen - potential future captain for them and the best CB between the two teams at present
6 Laurent Koscielny - Rock at the heart of their defence
11 Andre Santos - Adapting well to the PL
18 Sebastien Squillaci - Ageing
20 Johan Djourou - Covers CB and DM well
25 Carl Jenkinson - Young but could be a decent player
28 Kieran Gibbs - Young but promising

Midfielders

2 Abou Diaby - Injury prone
7 Tomas Rosicky - A creative midfielder who can change games
8 Mikel Arteta - Their Modric, neat and tidy but unspectacular.
16 Aaron Ramsey - Potential to be a very good player lacking confidence at present
17 Alexandre Song - Box to box player with good defensive abilities, he links defence to midfield well
19 Jack Wheelchair - Potential to be world class, better than any attacking CM (not counting rafa as he plays AM) we have other than modric.
26 Emmanuel Frimpong - Clogger


Strikers

9 Chu-Young Park - 1 year left before he goes on National service
11 Podolski - Better than anything we have in attack
10 Robin Van Persie - Better than anything we have in attack and world class
14 Theo Walcott - On his day his pace creates opportunities but a limited player
27 Gervinho - Good technical player who will improve with more game time
29 Marouane Chamakh - hasn't adapted well

Arsenal seem a lot stronger than us in central midfield as they have the ability to replace like for like. On the wings and up front they are light but their central strikers are better than anything we have. In defence they are well set for years but their LB position could do with some solidity. I think we are edging closer to them but they still have a much more balanced squad to us. Redknapp needs to take the blame for marginalising some good youthful players we have such as corluka and bassong making us light at the back.
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Whoooo. When you see it spelt out like that we do look like we have a squad full of ageing, not good enough, out-of-contract, disaffected, or not contracted players. A lot of work plainly needs to be done. I feel more than ever Mr R is a lot to blame for this and consequently isnt the right person to take us to the next stage. We need a three year plan NOW. Patently H isnt the one to implement it. If we had got the riches of CL then he could have carried on, but now a radical re-think is required.
 
Punk, that's a great post. A little pessimistic towards Spurs maybe(Parker, ageing?), and optimistic to the gooners. I'd say there is very little between the midfields. Up front they have more players, but clearly we are going to do business there. They could lose RVP and are simply not going to be able to get in an immediate replacement, the obvious thing is that Wenger is going to bank on Podolski being the answer. Defoe won't be allowed to leave until we have signed at least two more forwards (Adebayor + one other) and assuming GDS isn't really considered a serious squad member, I'm not convinced Defoe would even be allowed to leave unless we bring in a THIRD striker.

I'd say though that the league table is clear evidence that there is nothing between these two sides right now.
 
Sneezy - Potential to be world class. KIN ELL!!!

We have a better first team. End of no comparison. They have a better striker and obviously have a better team spirit what else can be said for our collapse and their second half surge?

Im not having it was the fixtures either its the spirit.
 
ArcspacE said:
Why / How is Fridel marginalisee and wanting out?
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He's not.


I also like the fact that Gomes is supposedly ageing.... He's 31.. Not exactly old for a goalkeeper..


Caulker and Naughton missing in the Defenders section?


You state that Chu-Young Park has 1 year left on his contract, and then conveniently forget that RVP is the same?
 
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ArcspacE said:
Why / How is Fridel marginalisee and wanting out?
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Think thats a mistake. Should say aging but useful. The comment marginalised and wanting out should be applied to Gomes. Also, Ade should be in red too as he is no longer our player!
 
Goalkeepers


0 - GK

Defenders

Benoit Assou-Ekotto - Steady LB
Kyle Walker - Excellent up and coming youngster
Michael Dawson - Injury prone but useful
Younes Kaboul - Best CB
Caulker - Young Talented CB
Naughton - Young Talented RB


1 - LB
1 - RB
1 - LB/RB
3 - CB

Midfielders

Sandro - Underused by Redknapp, but great potentially
Tom Huddlestone - Injured but a quality player
Aaron Lennon - Injury prone but excellent on form
Jake Livermore - Steady and solid
Luka Modric - Midfield Playmaker who is central to our play but not spectacular. May be on his way out
Rafael Van Der Vaart - If fit an excellent AM
Gareth Bale - One of the best wingers on his day and contributes a lot in goals and assists

4 - CM
1 -LM
1 -RM

Strikers

Jermain Defoe - Wants out

1 ST





So over the next two seasons (as the ageing players will continue to play for that long), we need to buy (or find via youth) 1 First team GK, 1 backup GK, 1 CB, 1 LM, 1 RM, 2 ST..


Seven players. That is hardly the crisis you are currently making it out to be. That's like 3 players a season. Is that really difficult to expect? And that is only 7 players if the players we have in the youth do not pan out. Townsend could come in and provide backup for Bale next season.


It's really not that bad.


This season we buy 1 CB, 2 ST, pull townsend up as LM backup. Keep friedel playing with cudicini as backup. The squad would be fine.




IMO this is hugely sensationalist as it has been made at the end of the season when the loan deal and Saha's contract have run out.
 
Spursalot said:
Goalkeepers


0 - GK

Defenders

Benoit Assou-Ekotto - Steady LB
Kyle Walker - Excellent up and coming youngster
Michael Dawson - Injury prone but useful
Younes Kaboul - Best CB
Caulker - Young Talented CB
Naughton - Young Talented RB


1 - LB
1 - RB
1 - LB/RB
3 - CB

Midfielders

Sandro - Underused by Redknapp, but great potentially
Tom Huddlestone - Injured but a quality player
Aaron Lennon - Injury prone but excellent on form
Jake Livermore - Steady and solid
Luka Modric - Midfield Playmaker who is central to our play but not spectacular. May be on his way out
Rafael Van Der Vaart - If fit an excellent AM
Gareth Bale - One of the best wingers on his day and contributes a lot in goals and assists

4 - CM
1 -LM
1 -RM

Strikers

Jermain Defoe - Wants out

1 ST





So over the next two seasons (as the ageing players will continue to play for that long), we need to buy (or find via youth) 1 First team GK, 1 backup GK, 1 CB, 1 LM, 1 RM, 2 ST..


Seven players. That is hardly the crisis you are currently making it out to be. That's like 3 players a season. Is that really difficult to expect? And that is only 7 players if the players we have in the youth do not pan out. Townsend could come in and provide backup for Bale next season.


It's really not that bad.


This season we buy 1 CB, 2 ST, pull townsend up as LM backup. Keep friedel playing with cudicini as backup. The squad would be fine.




IMO this is hugely sensationalist as it has been made at the end of the season when the loan deal and Saha's contract have run out.
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Compare and contrast our needs and requirements with those of Arse. Plus over the last 2/3 seasons they have lost some of their best players: Toure, Gallas, Adebayor, Nasri, Fabrigas, Clichy. Yet they dont have our issues. Funny that. And they have CL football to attract the best quality players in our price/salary bracket.
 
Pirate55 said:
Compare and contrast our needs and requirements with those of Arse. Plus over the last 2/3 seasons they have lost some of their best players: Toure, Gallas, Adebayor, Nasri, Fabrigas, Clichy. Yet they dont have our issues. Funny that. And they have CL football to attract the best quality players in our price/salary bracket.
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I can agree, just trying to point out that our situation is far from as hopeless as that analysis seemed to point to.
 
Spursalot said:
I can agree, just trying to point out that our situation is far from as hopeless as that analysis seemed to point to.
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I agree its not hopeless. But that analysis does point up the need for desperately urgent action. You say 3 players per year should do it. Possibly. But it is hard to find three top quality players that will add to our team at the best of times. Our striking situation is too terrible for words. We need three new strikers straight away for starters
 
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