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The Goon Thread

Advance congratulations to Arsenal for winning a trophy after so long. Maybe this will force us to be more ambitious in winning trophies.
 
:(

@OptaJoe: 11 - No side has won the FA Cup on more occasions than@Arsenal*(level with Man Utd). Victors

@FootballFunnys: The End....*

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Southcote Spur said:
I have just read the following article - not sure if serious?

There is a difference between supporting Arsenal and holding Tottenham supporters in disdain.
THE PRICE WE PAY – Don McMahon

While I was surfing the net I came across an excellent article written by my favourite political columnist (Shannon Ridgway) about how people who support adversarial causes can twist their normally objective views into rather negative attitudes towards their opposite number. And indeed how counter-productive that can end up being. Here is an adaptation of this article but with Football supporters replacing political opponents:

During a recent North London derby game at WHL, a few of my fellow Gooners and I were watching the match on TV when someone randomly made the following comment:

“Is it horrible to say that I wish those Spuds would burst into flames and all be killed while they’re under the same roof?”

Uhh, yes. Yes, it is horrible.

And even though I knew that the person who said this was just kidding, his general sentiments still rang loud and clear. And of course there was a lot of disdain for their Tottenham neighbours.

And it is fairly obvious (isn’t it) that there are a lot of problems with this.

Because while healthy and safe football debate is par for the course in sports events, and while frustration with the attitudes of “the other side” is becoming more and more frequent and polarizing in football, hate speech is unacceptable. Always.

So, for everyone who identifies him/herself as a Gooner or Tottenham supporter, I want to make the argument that holding and expressing disdain for the other team’s supporters is wrong – for many reasons. Here are just a few.

1. It’s stereotypical.

Just as individuals within a specific culture or ethnic group don’t all behave the same way and hold the same set of values, the same goes for people who identify themselves as Tottenham or Arsenal supporters.

Like other ideologies, football support exists on a spectrum, with a much larger number of moderates in the centre and a limited number of extremists on either end – just like any other sport.

And contrary to what some Gooners believe, not every Tottenham is a idiotic, blinkered Arsenal hate-monger.

To make that assumption not only means that you, yourself, are stereotyping an entire demographic, but you, yourself, are then engaging in stereotypical behaviour – which is exactly what Gooners often claim to be against.

2. It’s hypocritical.

We Gooners pride ourselves on being all-inclusive.

We strive to accept people of all ages, races, orientations, religions, classes, and backgrounds. Or, at least, most of us say that we do.

So shouldn’t that include our adversaries as well?

Just because we don’t understand or agree with someone doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t accept them for who they are. It doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t try to understand their perspectives. We can even share some of our own as well.

But engaging in hypocrisy really holds us back from engaging in intelligent and fair discourse.

And if we don’t strive to accept alternate opinions in the same ways that we try to include and understand other groups, then we’re nothing but hypocrites – only accepting those into our group who agree with us, but no one else.

3. It doesn’t help advance our causes.

This is where the often-used phrase “preaching to the choir” comes into play.

If we refuse to associate with or even tolerate other teams’ supporters, we limit our attitudes and beliefs to our own Gooner circles, thus reducing the opportunity for others to become enlightened to our causes.

If the only people with whom we’re comfortable engaging are people who think and act just like us, then who are we helping?

No one, really.

Not ourselves, not our friends, and certainly not the beautiful game we love and we’re always trying to promote and fight for.

However, if we take the time to reach out and attempt to understand others who may not hold the same opinions as us, we increase the likelihood of spreading the truth about the Beautiful Game and Arsenal’s message.

And isn’t that what we want?

4. The North London dichotomy often is based on distorted views on what the opposing supporters truly believe.

(Warning: Gross over-generalizations to follow.)

Spuds think that Gooners are arrogant.

Gooners think that Spuds are unflinchingly idiotic, to the point of detriment to everything and everyone else.

Spuds think that Gooners hate all Spuds.

Meanwhile, Gooners think that Spuds are second-class.

Spuds think that Gooners are naive.

Gooners think that Spuds have no understanding of what Football is truly all about.

And on and on. And on.

In reality – as it usually is – the truth is somewhere in the middle.

For the most part, both Spuds and Gpponers are arrogant at times. They just have different ideas on what success means.

And neither party entirely “hates” or “loves” each other , although surely there are some people on both sides who hold both of those sentiments. Rather, they just hold different views on how much Football affects our daily lives and what the historical truth is.

The same goes for class. The issue isn’t about the love or disdain of each other’s history and values, but rather the opposing beliefs on when and how often each club has or has not represented the best in Football.

And everyone is entitled to those personal view-points.

So when we pull back the curtain on our own prejudices, we are more able to see the truth for what it is, rather than be influenced by our own biases.

5. People believe what they believe based on their life experiences and what they’ve been taught.

Recently I spoke to an ex-Tottenham supporter who said that because he grew up the way he did (in a TH household), he had a limited perspective on what people of other clubs and backgrounds went through. So, naturally, he supported the Club that best represented his family’s value system and traditions.

It wasn’t until he was forced outside of his comfort zone and into the real world that he gained some perspective and began to empathize with what other club’s supporters had to go through, especially emotionally.

We’re quick to criticize others for not being open to the experiences of others, but we forget to remember that we, too, had to be taught to see the world in that light. Even those of us who are marginalized had to, at some point or another, recognize that marginalization in order to fight against it. Think about how loyal supporters of Portsmouth must feel for example.

So before we criticize, we should remember that some people just haven’t been taught to see things a certain way.

And others may never see things a different way, regardless of what they go through. And that’s okay. (Unless it’s extreme and hateful, of course).

6. It limits our potential to nurture current relationships and develop new ones.

If I lived in an area where there are more Tottenham supporters than Arsenal fans, it would be easy to learn to close them off and even actively dislike them while isolating myself from possible interaction.

If I vehemently disliked all of them, I would have very few friends.

If we assume that just because someone supports another Club, they aren’t worth getting to know, then we limit the possibility of great relationships.

The truth is, I know Tottenham people who have amazing qualities, and I know a few Arsenal people whom I can’t stand being around for more than a few minutes at a time.

A person’s Club affiliation does not directly relate to their qualities as a human being.

That is: Everyone is different, and their sports ideology shouldn’t make or break who they are as people.

So before you judge someone based on their club affiliation, take the time to get to know them. It just might be worth it.

It’s okay to disagree with people. It’s even okay to hold disdain for other people’s viewpoints. But when we cross over into personal attacks, we’ve gone too far. Not only are we being rude, we’re also being unfair.

And we’re robbing ourselves of the opportunity to broaden our own horizons, as well as those of others.

So the next time you find yourself criticizing opposition supporters, remind yourself that what you’re critical of is their belief system – not the people themselves.

Remind yourself that you’re a Gooner because you accept everyone for who they are.

And if we don’t, we’re only guilty of promoting the stereotyping, judging, and hypocrisy to which we claim to be opposed.
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Just go back to Woolwich where you belong and all will be forgotten. Same as with all pikeys, just go away.
 
^^That 'shirt' is NOT to commemorate our FA cup win--it' celebrates the 20–year partnership between Arsenal and Nike since 1994 combining some of the iconic Nike Arsenal Kits from the past two decades. It was going on sale (unbelievably bad decision by Nike as they'll be lucky to sell 10 of them) regardless of whether we won or lost. We wont be making a DVD either ;)
 
markysimmo said:
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whether celebrating beating us is "smalltime" or not is up for debate. the guy who wrote that however is an idiot. it makes perfect sense for arsenal to celebrate beating us (and vice versa) imo. we're fierce local rivals, and celebrating these kind of victories is what supporting a football club is all about.

the fact of the matter is, we have massively advanced in the past decade, and are also a top european side (just like arsenal), so the highetened sense of rivalry is perfectly normal. in addition, the guy goes on about how "scraping 4th" and going of the champions league at the knockout stages isn't enough. the guy is delusional. "scraping 4th" in a league where there are 2 billionaires, plus man utd, and teams like us who spent £100m last summer, and a giant football club in liverpool, is a massive acheivement (for a team like arsenal). if that is "scraping", i don't know what the rest of us are doing. he claims to "want more". theres a simple solution. he can buy arsenal and spend like abramovic and mansour.

the only thing he is probably right about is Wheelchair being a bit embarrassing in that parade vid.
 
I actually think this could be papering over big cracks for them.

Like that blogger said they scraped past Wigan and Hull in extra time and had home draws all the way to the semis. Hey a cup is a cup but I must say this Arsenal side are nowhere near as threatening as previous ones. Very slow and sometimes ponderous, especially if THEY have to do the attacking. Against a top 7 side yesterday and giving away a two goal lead in under 10 mins for them it's game over imo. In fact apart from us, how many sides start like they do in big games as often as that?

They will delight in the win and say, "well we coped without Walcott and Ramsay for so long, we were only 7 points off and we'd challenge next time". This will lead to minimal signings I suspect, and in that defence they certainly need some, especially with Sagna likely to be leaving. They also forget that when they have had all those players available they have still mostly been swatted by the other top clubs, e.g. 6-3 at Emirates Marketing Project, draw at home to Chelski etc.

I think the gloating over Mourinho and the 'specialist in failure jibe' will mean he and Roman will be as focused as ever to usurp them once again in the glory stakes: I expect that every target Arsenal have this summer will be stalked by Chelski to either gazump them or inflate the fee so high as to scupper the deal anyway (the Arsenal board will no doubt see the cup win as evidence that they can carry on siphoning the cash as normal instead of paying top dollar). Basically do a Willian on them. If/when they do buy they'll probably buy another Ozil (what did he do yesterday btw?).
In fact, with Manure likely to rebuild with LVG and big signings, Liverpool able to approach players saying "we have a minimum of 6 games in the CL, join us" I think they might just be squeezed out. In fact Jose and LVG could make a pact to do just that...

Well, that's my take on it anyway..
 
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