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The glorious march to CL qualification

glorygloryeze said:
Poch has recently questioned the meteorology of the team after our recent losses, in particular the losses at Burnley and at Soton on the weekend...my point is that "winning meteorology" cannot be turned on or off like a light-switch; if you can be 'meh' about losing one game you can be 'meh' about losing others...
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Right. So what I thought in the first place.

You've a bug in your ear about, and apparent misrepresentation of his comments before, and keep joining the dots to it.

There has never, ever, been an indication of wishing to turn on/off the teams mentality.

No excuses made.

None of it.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Right. So what I thought in the first place.

You've a bug in your ear about, and apparent misrepresentation of his comments before, and keep joining the dots to it.

There has never, ever, been an indication of wishing to turn on/off the teams meteorology.

No excuses made.

None of it.
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Ok. Do you agree with Poch's comments after the Burnley and Soton games about the team lacking in terms of 'mentality'?
 
A loss I can accept if the team plays us off the park.
I can even accept it if they score a lucky goal but overall deserved that luck from endeavour.
I can also take defeat as a result of a well worked opposition goal (I know most goals can be avoided somewhere during the build up, but it's a natural part of football).

But what I can't accept right now is the sheer stupidity of the goals we've leaked lately. Errors that are downright pathetic and naive for players of this supposed level and calibre!!

Burnley - Pathetic from Aurier to hoof it into middle of park and Eriksen's lack of effort to challenge.
Chelsea - Pathetic from Tripps (and Lloris?) to create that scenario that killed the game off.
Arsenal - Pathetic from Sanchez to mistime that header when he was unchallenged and under no pressure.
So'ton - Pathetic from Rose to try a stepover in his box without being sure of his surroundings.

This is what is going to cost us. Kane and Co can't be expected to score 2 or 3 every game to compensate for the seemingly constant brainfarts we have within our ranks right now.

Nor can Poch do anything about them.
 
Ade's folks are ok really said:
A loss I can accept if the team plays us off the park.
I can even accept it if they score a lucky goal but overall deserved that luck from endeavour.
I can also take defeat as a result of a well worked opposition goal (I know most goals can be avoided somewhere during the build up, but it's a natural part of football).

But what I can't accept right now is the sheer stupidity of the goals we've leaked lately. Errors that are downright pathetic and naive for players of this supposed level and calibre!!

Burnley - Pathetic from Aurier to hoof it into middle of park and Eriksen's lack of effort to challenge.
Chelsea - Pathetic from Tripps (and Lloris?) to create that scenario that killed the game off.
Arsenal - Pathetic from Sanchez to mistime that header when he was unchallenged and under no pressure.
So'ton - Pathetic from Rose to try a stepover in his box without being sure of his surroundings.

This is what is going to cost us. Kane and Co can't be expected to score 2 or 3 every game to compensate for the seemingly constant brainfarts we have within our ranks right now.

Nor can Poch do anything about them.
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I agree the fudges up need to stop, but I do kind of expect more from Kane and Co bearing in mind the difference in quality between them and most PL opponents.

I've been bitching about our wastefulness all season, with the ability we have we should be scoring 3/4 goals in most games.
 
Some of these errors come from Pochettino insistence we play ourselves out of trouble from the back.
No ball in row z for Mr P!
 
That's cause we still haven't learned the lesson of killing off games early. It must come from the manager cause whenever we go ahead we'll spend the next 20 mins passing it around the back and grinning when we miss chances.

What happened to putting a team to bed before half time?
 
Ok, so, are you confident we'll hold sway? Whilst we have really nosedived we are still 3rd.

Taking a negative view, we loo,k out of gas and have the two hardest games in the PL this season still to come.

Taking a positive view it could be argued we can't play any worse....probably. Also, We have 5 of the remaining 8 at home, whilst Chelsea and Man utd have to play each other, Chelsea are to play 5 of their remaining 8 away as do Arsenal and both are poor away, Man Utd have to play City and Chelsea...

Can anyone give a good case for us finishing in the top 3/4? Is this 3 week break actually necessary for most of our world cup playing squad? Can we get a result at Liverpool when we return?
 
glorygloryeze said:
The issues effecting us now were indeed present ALL SEASON despite our lofty position in the table. If any fans are miffed now it is because it could be seen LAST SEASON that there are issues with the team and that it was hoped they'd be rectified in the summer.
Again, i don't see what the fans attitude etc has to do with the downturn of results since the Dortmund first leg: if anaything moist fans were much more in the "happy clappy" camp as you out it, so i don't buy this "bad attitude seeping from the fans to the players" bit you seem to suggest at all. As i say we as a club were generally on cloud 9 and the players were heroes at that point.

Poch and Kane have indeed bought into Levy's plan, but lo and behold they themselves are questioning the team/club's ability to 'take the last step'...were they talking about the fans as well?
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I have said its a bad attitude from the Fans, ive said that if the Fans dont understand and buy into the project, then that will cause the collapse of that project. (ie Poch leaving)
Poch can be questioned he's made mistakes but there seems to be a massive divide in our fanbase between a high percentage of long term supporters and newer fans

The issues in the team were / are - Trippier, Wanyama, Dembele - In the summer i didnt see a massive clamour for the removal of those 3 players.
Poch has removed players who have not brought into his way, what he hasnt done is got rid of players who have brought into his way but need to be improved.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...ttino-signings-latest-plea-fans-a8752766.html
 
imcallingbullsh*t said:
I have said its a bad attitude from the Fans, ive said that if the Fans dont understand and buy into the project, then that will cause the collapse of that project. (ie Poch leaving)
Poch can be questioned he's made mistakes but there seems to be a massive divide in our fanbase between a high percentage of long term supporters and newer fans
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Can you explain why you think there is this divide between long-term and newer fans? Not sure i agree, but open to being convinced on that...
I also don't think anything about the 'fans attitude' can be used as an excuse/reason to explain the post-Dortmund first leg form.

imcallingbullsh*t said:
The issues in the team were / are - Trippier, Wanyama, Dembele - In the summer i didnt see a massive clamour for the removal of those 3 players.
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Disagree, many said Wanyama and Dembele needed to be upgraded or extra cm bodies brought in to make us less reliant on them as they were clearly fading. Trippier? I agree there weren't particular noises about him. But DEFINITELY the issues in CM were long-discussed, even in the press iirc.

imcallingbullsh*t said:
Poch has removed players who have not bought into his way, what he hasnt done is got rid of players who have bought into his way but need to be improved.
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Disagree - what about Mason, N'Jie even Pritchard and Bentaleb? Ok, in the case of Bentaleb it was his attitude which was borne out of impatience, getting too big for his boots etc. But i'm sure if he didn't constantly give balls away in dangerous defensive midfeid areas he'd still be here. One could also put Townsend and Chiriches in this category. It's a myth to say he hasn't got rid of players who've bought into his way but we needed to upgrade on. Soldado is the poster boy for that too...

imcallingbullsh*t said:
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/tottenham-transfer-news-mauricio-pochettino-signings-latest-plea-fans-a8752766.html
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Fair quotes from him, but he has also said himself that "perhaps we need to operate in a different way" etc, so there are those too..
 
glorygloryeze said:
Poch has recently questioned the meteorology of the team after our recent losses, in particular the losses at Burnley and at Soton on the weekend...my point is that "winning meteorology" cannot be turned on or off like a light-switch; if you can be 'meh' about losing one game you can be 'meh' about losing others...
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Do you think Poch tells the players the same thing about trophies in public as in private? Do you think he was happy or ambivalent about the loss to United in the semi final last season?

Because on that point, it was obvious to anyone that both coaches and players or Spurs were absolutely furious that they lost that game. I don’t think there was a problem with motivation, probably more killer instinct and mentality.
 
This may sit better in another thread but I've been thinking about how we seem incapable of holding on to leads at the moment - or at least dwelling on the southampton game which appears similar to the watford defeat earlier in the season when complacency appears to have crept in. Not all down to complacency alone but we have also lost games in which we have been winning against Woolwich away and Wolves home as well as Inter in the CL; we have drawn with watford (league cup) and PSV whilst looking on course to win. This to me seemed out of place with the usual professionalism of Poch teams over the last few years.

So I have done a bit of research to look at how often we lose leads in games under Poch and have come up with the following (based on all comps)

14/15 - we led in 38 games going on to win 29 times (76%); we drew 16% and lost 8%
15/16 - 39 games - won 66%, drew 26%, lost 8%
16/17 - 35 games - won 91%, drew 6%, lost 3%
17/18 - 40 games - won 82.5%, drew 10%, lost 7.5%

18/19 - 35 games - won 80%, drew 6%, lost 14%

This to me proves just how mentally good we were in 16/17; once we went ahead we won 9/10 games. This season we have lost 14% of games we have taken a lead which is significantly higher than any other season under Poch. Win % has dippev slightly since last season and from 16/17 although significantly higher than 15/16 when we arguably came closest to winning the league.

So what has happened in the last 2 seasons? Mental fragility and some individual errors costing us crucial goals - these are probably explicitly linked?
 
GPRD81 said:
This may sit better in another thread but I've been thinking about how we seem incapable of holding on to leads at the moment - or at least dwelling on the southampton game which appears similar to the watford defeat earlier in the season when complacency appears to have crept in. Not all down to complacency alone but we have also lost games in which we have been winning against Woolwich away and Wolves home as well as Inter in the CL; we have drawn with watford (league cup) and PSV whilst looking on course to win. This to me seemed out of place with the usual professionalism of Poch teams over the last few years.

So I have done a bit of research to look at how often we lose leads in games under Poch and have come up with the following (based on all comps)

14/15 - we led in 38 games going on to win 29 times (76%); we drew 16% and lost 8%
15/16 - 39 games - won 66%, drew 26%, lost 8%
16/17 - 35 games - won 91%, drew 6%, lost 3%
17/18 - 40 games - won 82.5%, drew 10%, lost 7.5%

18/19 - 35 games - won 80%, drew 6%, lost 14%

This to me proves just how mentally good we were in 16/17; once we went ahead we won 9/10 games. This season we have lost 14% of games we have taken a lead which is significantly higher than any other season under Poch. Win % has dippev slightly since last season and from 16/17 although significantly higher than 15/16 when we arguably came closest to winning the league.

So what has happened in the last 2 seasons? Mental fragility and some individual errors costing us crucial goals - these are probably explicitly linked?
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This season for one we haven’t played the same team twice in the league so arguably it’s inconsistent selection as an impact
 
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