The Elephant On The Forum

[Nezza]

There is a lot of ******** spoken about magical mystical ingredients required to win leagues. You just need the most points is all.
And the Cardiff game was all about the players determination to get three points, I see the Paulinho bundle and I see a team overjoyed to achieve that days mission.
We'll get 85 points this season and it is out of our hands if that is sufficient.

It doesn't hurt to have players like Holtby and Lamela on the bench either. Having that quality available to bring on against tiring opponents could be the difference between settling for a 0-0 vs pushing for that Fergie-time winner.

 

[skyfarer]

You do realize we'll lose against Chelsea and it'll be back to "not good enough, no chance of making top four, Siggy/Townsend/Walker/Dawson sux" etc etc.

 

[Pandy]

There is a lot of ******** spoken about magical mystical ingredients required to win leagues. You just need the most points is all.
And the Cardiff game was all about the players determination to get three points, I see the Paulinho bundle and I see a team overjoyed to achieve that days mission.
We'll get 85 points this season and it is out of our hands if that is sufficient.

I'll be impressed if we manage 75, let alone 85.

89 is a total of 29 points dropped. 26 more from the last 33 games of the season. Say 4 more losses and 7 draws... that would be ridiculous.

Imagine finishing the season 26-7-5... I just can't see it. We were grinding out results like this in patches last season but as other posters have alluded, you need the mentality to do it over a whole season. This is the Premiership - probably the most difficult league to win in the world in terms of sheer competition and quality.

Of course we are in with a shout but I think we are 5th favourites. If we make it through our tough run of fixtures in March and are within 3 points of 1st I'll start to believe...

 

[Modric THFC]

Back in the real world we're 2/3 odds to finish outside the top 4.

 

[braineclipse]

Dubai and Hoot said it well already - mentality and experience and all that stuff really does matter. They translate into cold, hard points and aren't just meaningless psychobabble.

We haven't won the league in ** years. That's heavy, even if a new crop of players isn't consciously thinking about it. To expect us to bin that in this squad's first year and turn over 4 of the best teams in Europe for the last 5 to 10 years is just a hell of a lot to ask. 3rd would be one of the best seasons in the club's entire history, which puts it in perspective.

Of course, it could happen. Clubs do occasionally burst out of nowhere and surprise everyone. Everton, Villa and Forest in the 70's/80's won leagues after decades of nothing. Aberdeen under a certain special one did it. More recently Roma and Deportivo did it. Liverpool won the 2005 European Cup out of nowhere. If they can do it then we can, and in one of 50 parallel universes Spurs do indeed win the league. Maybe it'll be in this universe after all.

Our team is not void of experience or void of winners though. A substantial number of our new signings have captained previous sides or won big titles or both. Yes as a team this group of players haven't won anything, but we have quite a few that have experienced going into vital matches with the right attitude and coming out on top.

Not saying it will happen, or even that it's likely to happen, I actually like your 50 parallel universes description

 

[indianspur]

i dont think so

we will be lucky to get 4th imo

 

[Pandy]

i dont think so

we will be lucky to get 4th imo

Basically this... Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea and Arsenal have looked very strong or possess very strong squads. Man U are, well, Man U. If Moyes really is that **** we might pip them or maybe the gooners to 4th. But then again Moyes had a much worse Everton team almost challenging for a top 4 spot - and people think his Man U team of immeasurably better quality will suddenly fall to the same level? Can't see it.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Dubai and Hoot said it well already - mentality and experience and all that stuff really does matter. They translate into cold, hard points and aren't just meaningless psychobabble.

We haven't won the league in ** years. That's heavy, even if a new crop of players isn't consciously thinking about it. To expect us to bin that in this squad's first year and turn over 4 of the best teams in Europe for the last 5 to 10 years is just a hell of a lot to ask. 3rd would be one of the best seasons in the club's entire history, which puts it in perspective.

Of course, it could happen. Clubs do occasionally burst out of nowhere and surprise everyone. Everton, Villa and Forest in the 70's/80's won leagues after decades of nothing. Aberdeen under a certain special one did it. More recently Roma and Deportivo did it. Liverpool won the 2005 European Cup out of nowhere. If they can do it then we can, and in one of 50 parallel universes Spurs do indeed win the league. Maybe it'll be in this universe after all.

I just find it quite nauseating to be honest, the fawning over teams that have been good for the last few years as if they are infallible gods of football. Sod that. When Chelsea won the league did they have all the experience of doing it as a team? No, they just spent a **** load of money on good players and had a manager that was relatively ahead of his time in terms of tactical thinking. What about Emirates Marketing Project? Emirates Marketing Project are actually hilarious, and really muck this 'experience' argument up IMO, again they spent a **** load of lottery money to win the league, and the next year we hear lots of managers say sagely 'they are now playing with the arrogance of champions because they now have the experience, they will be more fearsome this year'. Oh no though, they put on one of the weakest title defences I can actually remember, against a Man United squad that was hardly one of their best.

Or Arsenal. Let's look at Arsenal. They have the experience of going an entire ****ing year undefeated! 'When the chips are down and the opposition are playing mind games and they need to raise the tempo do they have the experience to get the goal they need?' Well Arsenal did! For an entire ****ing year! Lot of good that does them when their squad is full of overhyped egos like Wheelchair and Walcott and they haven't won a trophy for about 300 years.

Look, I'm not saying we are going to win the league, but I definitely think we have the staff and players to put up a good fight and if we get some luck, we can do it. All it really comes down to is having quality players relative to the rest of the league and having them be well managed. We aren't even coming from nowhere as a team, we have been threatening this progression for a number of years. We've easily been good enough to be a Top 4 team for the last few years and harsh luck has meant we've missed out. We have quality players and a quality manager.

It's like people are afraid to get hurt, to have their dreams dashed and therefore don't want to believe. Well I say believe. Man up. Stop lauding teams just because they have 'the experience' when they are relying on the likes of John Obi Mikel and Tom Cleverley in their midfield.

Tottenham have arrived. Believe it!

 

[Gutter Boy]

I think there's only one person around who actually genuinely believes we can do it this season. And that's AVB.

AVB has a touch of Nicholson to him - he sets his sights so high that even failure will have in it an echo of glory. Never had is so good Redknapp? - pah!

 

[braineclipse]

i dont think so

we will be lucky to get 4th imo

Certainly, once again, competition for getting into the top 4 will be fierce. The way it should be.

I think some of the more optimistic dreaming in this thread is just that, but surely we must be allowed to be optimistic and to dream. It's not impossible, although unlikely. In itself a testament to how far we've come.

 

[Lily White]

Serious relegation fears

 

[Rorschach]

I just find it quite nauseating to be honest, the fawning over teams that have been good for the last few years as if they are infallible gods of football. Sod that. When Chelsea won the league did they have all the experience of doing it as a team? No, they just spent a **** load of money on good players and had a manager that was relatively ahead of his time in terms of tactical thinking. What about Emirates Marketing Project? Emirates Marketing Project are actually hilarious, and really muck this 'experience' argument up IMO, again they spent a **** load of lottery money to win the league, and the next year we hear lots of managers say sagely 'they are now playing with the arrogance of champions because they now have the experience, they will be more fearsome this year'. Oh no though, they put on one of the weakest title defences I can actually remember, against a Man United squad that was hardly one of their best.

Or Arsenal. Let's look at Arsenal. They have the experience of going an entire ****ing year undefeated! 'When the chips are down and the opposition are playing mind games and they need to raise the tempo do they have the experience to get the goal they need?' Well Arsenal did! For an entire ****ing year! Lot of good that does them when their squad is full of overhyped egos like Wheelchair and Walcott and they haven't won a trophy for about 300 years.

Look, I'm not saying we are going to win the league, but I definitely think we have the staff and players to put up a good fight and if we get some luck, we can do it. All it really comes down to is having quality players relative to the rest of the league and having them be well managed. We aren't even coming from nowhere as a team, we have been threatening this progression for a number of years. We've easily been good enough to be a Top 4 team for the last few years and harsh luck has meant we've missed out. We have quality players and a quality manager.

It's like people are afraid to get hurt, to have their dreams dashed and therefore don't want to believe. Well I say believe. Man up. Stop lauding teams just because they have 'the experience' when they are relying on the likes of John Obi Mikel and Tom Cleverley in their midfield.

Tottenham have arrived. Believe it!

Amen brother !!!! That's the spirit.

 

[billyiddo]

Great post BoL - last paragraph is so true of our support these days, although it's understandable i guess after the kicks to the teeth we've suffered the last few years.

We have a squad jam packed with leaders and plenty of 'winners' there too even if it was abroad where they done their winning. We have a coach that has a very good record with us and if you are willing to allow a little bit room for the beginning of his time with us (players settling/adapting to the change over from the previous manager) then it starts to look even better.

Audere est Facere!

 

[Gutter Boy]

Dubai and Hoot said it well already - mentality and experience and all that stuff really does matter. They translate into cold, hard points and aren't just meaningless psychobabble.

We haven't won the league in ** years. That's heavy, even if a new crop of players isn't consciously thinking about it. To expect us to bin that in this squad's first year and turn over 4 of the best teams in Europe for the last 5 to 10 years is just a hell of a lot to ask. 3rd would be one of the best seasons in the club's entire history, which puts it in perspective.

Of course, it could happen. Clubs do occasionally burst out of nowhere and surprise everyone. Everton, Villa and Forest in the 70's/80's won leagues after decades of nothing. Aberdeen under a certain special one did it. More recently Roma and Deportivo did it. Liverpool won the 2005 European Cup out of nowhere. If they can do it then we can, and in one of 50 parallel universes Spurs do indeed win the league. Maybe it'll be in this universe after all.

Quite a few of our players have experience of winning things at their previous clubs:
Verts - Eredivisie x2, KNVB Cup
Eriksen - Eredivisie x3, KNVB Cup
Lloris - Coupe de France
Paulinho - Serie A, Copa Libertadores, World Club Championship
Soldado - La Liga
Dembele - Eredivisie
Sandro - Copa Libertadores
AVB - Primeira Liga, UEFA Cup

I do think AVB has significantly changed our mentality too. Whereas Redknapp relied on a few old hands like Parker, VdV and Gallas to compensate for the weaker-minded players, we're now seeing a much more resilient group of players right across the board. We have no leaders, but we have 20 leaders

 

[the fox in the box]

lets secure that CL spot before we worry about where we finish yeah?

We could win the league but I would snatch your hands off for another go at the CL next year if I could

 

[Bullet]

Sometimes we have Brazil's midfield.

Brazil!

That is incredible compared to 10 years ago.

Oh, and Spain's striker too.

And France's captain.

Loads of quality, but we will fail as we always do. What is the Latin for "Snatching failure from the jaws of success"?

 

[Baleforce]

Sometimes we have Brazil's midfield.

Brazil!

That is incredible compared to 10 years ago.

Oh, and Spain's striker too.

And France's captain.

Loads of quality, but we will fail as we always do. What is the Latin for "Snatching failure from the jaws of success"?

Audere Est Facere

 

[Gutter Boy]

lets secure that CL spot before we worry about where we finish yeah?

We could win the league but I would snatch your hands off for another go at the CL next year if I could

Nah. Jol sussed this years ago. I remember him saying that you can't get 4th aiming for 4th, when you are competing against 4 teams aiming for 1st.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I think there's only one person around who actually genuinely believes we can do it this season. And that's AVB.

AVB has a touch of Nicholson to him - he sets his sights so high that even failure will have in it an echo of glory. Never had is so good Redknapp? - pah!

True. I believe that AVB demands the very best and luckily for us has the ability and vision to make it happen.

Although I wonder how much truth their was in the reports that Levy was thinking we can win the league this year and AVB saying it may take a while longer?

 

[Joesh]

I think there's only one person around who actually genuinely believes we can do it this season. And that's AVB.

AVB has a touch of Nicholson to him - he sets his sights so high that even failure will have in it an echo of glory. Never had is so good Redknapp? - pah!

AVB has said earlier that we werent title contenders though. Obviously that was to the public and maybe to play down expectations. It was interesting as Redknapp got abuse about this, funnily enough I remember George Graham getting abuse for saying we no chance of winning the league even before it started back when he was in charge with a squad of nobodies.