The Defensive Midfielder

[milo]

Same old, same old in terms of the midfield unfortunately. No pace, no power, no conviction and no drive. Unless we find a decent midfield leader and Alli miraculously morphs into Kane mkII I fear we are going to remain very much threading water, at best...

Do you mean finishing fifth or sixth?

 

[Maltese Falcon]

Do you mean finishing fifth or sixth?

Yes - but with an ever widening gap to top 4

 

[thfcsteff]

I have to hope that the majority of our supporters understand that we are better off sticking with a philosophy and that maybe part of it is going to be taking a hit on 4th for a couple of seasons whilst we build. Let's have a platform for the new stadium on the pitch, and let's make sure that when we get 4th, we can sustain it for years.

 

[milo]

Yes - but with an ever widening gap to top 4

I doubt that it will widen that much. Our squad looks better than last year and I expect more players to come in before the end of the window.

I haven't been particularly impressed with any of the top four's dealings this summer.

The gap between us and the top four is a financial one. Until we can match them financially, it is always going to be a one in ten shot at finishing above one of them.

 

[Hashegotthesackyet?]

I appreciate that we are looking to operate as a self sufficient club, I get all of that.
But surely joe could give us an advance!

 

[Raziel]

I appreciate that we are looking to operate as a self sufficient club, I get all of that.
But surely joe could give us an advance!

A 400M quid one? because that's how much more Pool has spent than us in 6 years and still finished below us 5 out of 6 times

If you want to get to Manure territory you would need a 800M advance ...

 

[Hashegotthesackyet?]

No, just enough to land a couple of decent targets during this window, early, rather than play the waiting game and jeopardise them being sold to a club that acts a bit quicker!

 

[Maltese Falcon]

Time to resuscitate this thread and get some decent arguments on going...

WE NEED A HOLDING MIDFIELDER

It seems that the current fad is "double pivot" and this has been the argument of those who are against the holder/DM. Two players who are equally comfortable in defending, have spatial awareness to position themselves correctly and above all the intelligence to read their midfield partner's position and compensate accordingly.

This is fine if you can afford to pay 30 mill each for your pivot components, fork out the 100K salary that comes with it and ward off the competition from teams that can offer the same plus CL football. But we are not in that elite league...

From experience in smallish companies, I know that it is far easier for us to identify and recruit individuals who are good in specific tasks than it is to get experienced and outstanding all rounders, who invariably are cherry picked by the big boys. Then it is up to us to balance the people we recruit so that their positives out balance the negatives of others. It's the only way a small company can compete.

Bentaleb, Mason and Dembele have all been used as double pivot components but to be honest they are jacks of all trades and masters of none... To me we have one potentially outstanding player in the team and that is Alli - he could be our Vieira or Yaya in the next couple of years. We know when those two were most successful - when they had a holding midfielder playing along them... Vieira with Petit/Gilberto; Yaya with Barry.

I sort of get the impression that Poch is starting to see this too... why else would you play Dier there? Only problem is that Dier is a CB - not a holder.

 

[milo]

Time to resuscitate this thread and get some decent arguments on going...

WE NEED A HOLDING MIDFIELDER

It seems that the current fad is "double pivot" and this has been the argument of those who are against the holder/DM. Two players who are equally comfortable in defending, have spatial awareness to position themselves correctly and above all the intelligence to read their midfield partner's position and compensate accordingly.

This is fine if you can afford to pay 30 mill each for your pivot components, fork out the 100K salary that comes with it and ward off the competition from teams that can offer the same plus CL football. But we are not in that elite league...

From experience in smallish companies, I know that it is far easier for us to identify and recruit individuals who are good in specific tasks than it is to get experienced and outstanding all rounders, who invariably are cherry picked by the big boys. Then it is up to us to balance the people we recruit so that their positives out balance the negatives of others. It's the only way a small company can compete.

Bentaleb, Mason and Dembele have all been used as double pivot components but to be honest they are jacks of all trades and masters of none... To me we have one potentially outstanding player in the team and that is Alli - he could be our Vieira or Yaya in the next couple of years. We know when those two were most successful - when they had a holding midfielder playing along them... Vieira with Petit/Gilberto; Yaya with Barry.

I sort of get the impression that Poch is starting to see this too... why else would you play Dier there? Only problem is that Dier is a CB - not a holder.

You're right. If there is one thing that has been missing from this board over the summer, it has discussions about holding midfielder.

 

[Robspur12]

Bentaleb, Mason and Dembele have all been used as double pivot components but to be honest they are jacks of all trades and masters of none... To me we have one potentially outstanding player in the team and that is Alli - he could be our Vieira or Yaya in the next couple of years. We know when those two were most successful - when they had a holding midfielder playing along them... Vieira with Petit/Gilberto; Yaya with Barry.

I sort of get the impression that Poch is starting to see this too... why else would you play Dier there? Only problem is that Dier is a CB - not a holder.

Some good points. I think bentaleb will be an exceptional defensive midfielder eventually. But for now he is young and prone to brain farts. He needs to be supported by an experienced defensive midfielder imo a wily old Edgar David's type if there are some older ones out there in the twilight of their careers. I agree Poch has identified a problem in this area.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Bentaleb, Mason and Dembele have all been used as double pivot components but to be honest they are jacks of all trades and masters of none... To me we have one potentially outstanding player in the team and that is Alli - he could be our Vieira or Yaya in the next couple of years. We know when those two were most successful - when they had a holding midfielder playing along them... Vieira with Petit/Gilberto; Yaya with Barry.

I sort of get the impression that Poch is starting to see this too... why else would you play Dier there? Only problem is that Dier is a CB - not a holder.

That's exactly what Schneiderlin, Kramer and everyone else who plays as a double pivot is too. The whole point is that both players are defensively capable and both transition the ball quickly.

 

[Robspur12]

That's exactly what Schneiderlin, Kramer and everyone else who plays as a double pivot is too. The whole point is that both players are defensively capable and both transition the ball quickly.

But the ones you mentioned are better defensively than what we have. Therefore we need to upgrade to one of those or bring in an older player who can help develop the likes of bentaleb

 

[Maltese Falcon]

That's exactly what Schneiderlin, Kramer and everyone else who plays as a double pivot is too. The whole point is that both players are defensively capable and both transition the ball quickly.

Actually those players you mention are jacks of all trades and masters of ALL

 

[NaijaSpurs]

While Bentaleb's mistake caused the goal, I believe Levy and our scouting staff need to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. If Poch was able to identify that both Capoue and Stambouli were going to be sold be it for footballing or non footballing reasons then I really think a replacement should have been identified, and if not why not?

It is all well and good Levy looking for a last minute bargain, but I find it hard to believe that there is not a suitable defensive midfielder available somewhere in the footballing world that would improve us and would want to sign for us if we offered the right money.

We have known for a while that our first match was away to Utd, you would have thought that would focus the mind of our management team, but obviously not

 

[scaramanga]

But the ones you mentioned are better defensively than what we have. Therefore we need to upgrade to one of those or bring in an older player who can help develop the likes of bentaleb

They're mostly better going forward too. That's because they're better players.

If your argument is that CL quality players are better than top 6 quality players then I agree.

 

[milo]

While Bentaleb's mistake caused the goal, I believe Levy and our scouting staff need to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. If Poch was able to identify that both Capoue and Stambouli were going to be sold be it for footballing or non footballing reasons then I really think a replacement should have been identified, and if not why not?

It is all well and good Levy looking for a last minute bargain, but I find it hard to believe that there is not a suitable defensive midfielder available somewhere in the footballing world that would improve us and would want to sign for us if we offered the right money.

We have known for a while that our first match was away to Utd, you would have thought that would focus the mind of our management team, but obviously not

We are undoubtedly looking for value in the market but I think that there is another reason too. The players that we need to improve the first team may well also be of interest to bigger clubs. It is hard to bring those players in until the big clubs have finished their business.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

We are undoubtedly looking for value in the market but I think that there is another reason too. The players that we need to improve the first team may well also be of interest to bigger clubs. It is hard to bring those players in until the big clubs have finished their business.

I suspect you are right would be nice to unearth another young Schneiderlin, though...

 

[parklane1]

I have been saying for a while that our CM is our biggest weakness and that we need to upgrade in that area, before anyone jumps in saying that Poch will not play a DM I will say again that is not what I am on about. What we need is a CM player who has a defensive mind set and will see players running in behind them etc, neither one of our present CM do that.

I watched Dier yesterday and seeing as it was his first real challenge in that position I thought he did well, I am not saying he will be the long term answer but he is better then what we have and deserves more games to grow into it. I am still hoping that we will upgrade but until we do than he should remain in the team.

 

[Robspur12]

We are undoubtedly looking for value in the market but I think that there is another reason too. The players that we need to improve the first team may well also be of interest to bigger clubs. It is hard to bring those players in until the big clubs have finished their business.

That's too convenient for me. Man Utd, Chelsea, Real, Barca, City and l'arse are not competing with us for a defensive midfielder. I don't blame levy either, I doubt he is currently negotiating our transfers. I would suspect he has other things on his mind.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

We are undoubtedly looking for value in the market but I think that there is another reason too. The players that we need to improve the first team may well also be of interest to bigger clubs. It is hard to bring those players in until the big clubs have finished their business.

If Palace can get a midfielder like Cabaye there have got to be suitable players we can buy. What we gain in chasing last minute value at the end of transfer window we lose in points when we have not strengthened our team