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The case for the defence

Bullet said:
I thought we learned that Toby doesn't like Mou and vice versa, some sort of tension and disagreement.
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The Special Once in a relationship with tension and disagreement? What a shocker. Can't be true. He's such a lovable scamp.
 
SteveAWOL said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1383416181361545219
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Defending isn’t only about your 4 defenders.... in fact it is probably less than 50% about them....

Look how easily teams create numerical overloads against us out wide, look how runners don’t get tracked, look how often Hojbjerg and Ndombele/Sissoko are both on the same side of the pitch with a chasm of space on the other side.

Yes our centre back painting is poor and needs to be improved, but the coaching and structure of our team looks pathetic.
 
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Few ideas for left sided CBs; still feel we miss the balance from having verts there. Not saying he's at Dias' level but Mings could be someone that brings the defensive unit together, he's most definitely an organiser and I feel would raise his game for us.

Other option would be trying to pry Ake away from City, they're clearly not in need of him, dare I say it he could be part of some kind of swap deal. Pointless having him hang around there if he's not part of the set up, maybe even a loan initially.

Not been watching enough overseas football to be in the know for up and coming talents, what a shame we weren't in for Fofana though, perhaps it's the scouting side of things we need to be looking at first. One of the above two and an experienced head on a free could really shore up a weak position for us.

Edit - Like @Finney Is Back says though, it's not just about the back four, much more to do with the team as a whole. Ideally upgrading Sissoko to a real DM who can shield the back four would be a big plus as the Mous has gone back to looking a bit lost in there..
 
Finney Is Back said:
Defending isn’t only about your 4 defenders.... in fact it is probably less than 50% about them....

Look how easily teams create numerical overloads against us out wide, look how runners don’t get tracked, look how often Hojbjerg and Ndombele/Sissoko are both on the same side of the pitch with a chasm of space on the other side.

Yes our centre back painting is poor and needs to be improved, but the coaching and structure of our team looks pathetic.
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I agree, but on the flip side the centre backs might be making the people around them worse too.

Having centre backs that aren't comfortable playing a high line certainly limits our tactical options.

Having centre backs that are poor on the ball puts us under more pressure.

Not saying a new centre back or two will fix all our defensive problems, but it's the obvious place to start.
 
No goals conceded again, well done in particular by Davinson Sanchez again. Skipp and Hojbjerg in combination instrumental in keeping these clean sheets (and poor opposition, again: Watford all-round I would say, and Wolves in terms of finishing). What I found worrying in a broader perspective today was the contribution of the full-backs. The defensive part of Reguilon's game remains a concern, especially when he faces a physically stronger winger or midfielder (like Sarr today). On the other side Japhet is a more natural defender, but so many of his passes - also quite basic ones - are going astray. So as lots of the defensive frailties lie on our left-hand side, most of our attacking play breaks down on the right. Thinking back to Walker/Trippier/Rose etc., the current wing back situation is still very much work in progress.
 
Hotspur75 said:
No goals conceded again, well done in particular by Davinson Sanchez again. Skipp and Hojbjerg in combination instrumental in keeping these clean sheets (and poor opposition, again: Watford all-round I would say, and Wolves in terms of finishing). What I found worrying in a broader perspective today was the contribution of the full-backs. The defensive part of Reguilon's game remains a concern, especially when he faces a physically stronger winger or midfielder (like Sarr today). On the other side Japhet is a more natural defender, but so many of his passes - also quite basic ones - are going astray. So as lots of the defensive frailties lie on our left-hand side, most of our attacking play breaks down on the right. Thinking back to Walker/Trippier/Rose etc., the current wing back situation is still very much work in progress.
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What game did you watch mate?

I'm not disagreeing with your general observations but Reguilon had a good game and Tanganga had a mare today, he was turned, passed, caught out of position, tough day at office.

I'd also say left sided attacks is not an issue, Bergwijn ran them fudging ragged for large parts of the game.

We don't need to play like Rose/Walker and we won't because that isn't how the team is setup or the type of players we have anymore (Poch fudged up in the end because even after Rose & Walker were no longer in the side, we tried to play like they were.)
 
Raziel said:
What game did you watch mate?

I'm not disagreeing with your general observations but Reguilon had a good game and Tanganga had a mare today, he was turned, passed, caught out of position, tough day at office.

I'd also say left sided attacks is not an issue, Bergwijn ran them fudging ragged for large parts of the game.

We don't need to play like Rose/Walker and we won't because that isn't how the team is setup or the type of players we have anymore (Poch fudged up in the end because even after Rose & Walker were no longer in the side, we tried to play like they were.)
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Ok, let me try and clarify then. My observations were intended to be general, inspired by what we saw today but with an eye on the bigger picture, the rebuild or whatever you want to call it (you of all posters have kept an eye on the bigger picture during the window after all). The CB's are doing better than last year (early days of course, but Sanchez in particular looks better than he has been since his first season with us), and the main tactical change so far from Nuno has been the addition of a second holding midfielder in Skipp to Hojbjerg, thus protecting the back line. I would stick with that combo for now, even against supposedly weaker sides. What that means is that we lack creativity from midfield, we saw that against Wolves and again today. Hojbjerg is trying to provide it, but I don't think that's what he is in the team for. We could argue whether Alli has a role to play in bringing that creativity - personally I prefer him (2.0) to Lo Celso - but that was not the point of my post. Regardless of who you think the AM should be, in the current set-up we need some creativity from the full-backs. Reguilon is important going forward, but I find the defensive side of his game a concern - that was the case last season, and it was also the case in the first half today. Tanganga did not play well today, I agree. I don't want to vilify him for that, but I do think that to play well he has to focus on the defensive side of his game, his natural strength in my view. Stronger opponents suit his game better than, say, Watford because he offers little going forward, in fact he disrupts more attacks than he sets up. I know we should not look for carbon copies of Rose and Walker, like we should not be looking for the new Modric or the new Eriksen. But we do need more creativity from the full-backs, which is why I understand that Paratici is still looking for a RB. I watched about 60mins of Barcelona-Getafe earlier incidentally, and based on that I believe Emerson is not the answer.
 
The egyptian said:
^^^^^^^^^
I can’t back you in that Regulion opinion, he played well defensively today. Sarr is really a hard player to defend against.
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Reguilon wont come up against many bigger and quicker player than Sarr this season and I thought he did a very good job. It seems to me that our fullbacks have been told to get in quickly and use their physicality against their opponents, forcing them back.
 
The egyptian said:
^^^^^^^^^
I can’t back you in that Regulion opinion, he played well defensively today. Sarr is really a hard player to defend against.
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K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
Reguilon wont come up against many bigger and quicker player than Sarr this season and I thought he did a very good job. It seems to me that our fullbacks have been told to get in quickly and use their physicality against their opponents, forcing them back.
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I would agree with both those posts.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
Reguilon wont come up against many bigger and quicker player than Sarr this season and I thought he did a very good job. It seems to me that our fullbacks have been told to get in quickly and use their physicality against their opponents, forcing them back.
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Old school defending
Stop the attacker in an area of less threat
The city way too
Makes bloody sense
All this jockeying and waiting for something else to happen really isn’t great
 
Old school defending
Stop the attacker in an area of less threat
Couldn't agree more, I get so annoyed watching a fullback running backwards, not tackling and then failing to block the inevitable cross. I'd rather they got stuck in and got a yellow if need be.............
 
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