The Badger's Hole (ITK Thread)

[El Guepardo]

Just get Levy Time in full swing for the selling if players. I will never forget the great deal that he did in selling Palacios and Crouch to Stoke.

 

[stinkfoot]

You can only move on players that there is interest in. If Sherwood thinks that Holtby is surplus to requirements then we should sell him now. He never established himself at Spurs and we'll make a tidy profit. It's a shame it hasn't worked out but these things happen.

He's never been given the chance Milo.

No, what this smells of is Sherwood thinking how much he wants to dump any big name/AVB era signing and play a team of youth players which he thinks will be his own special Fergie "class of 92" awakening but will in fact turn us into ****ing Aston Villa.

Daaamn. I'm in a bad mood this morning.

 

[milo]

He's never been given the chance Milo.

No, what this smells of is Sherwood thinking how much he wants to dump any big name/AVB era signing and play a team of youth players which he thinks will be his own special Fergie "class of 92" awakening but will in fact turn us into ****ing Aston Villa.

Daaamn. I'm in a bad mood this morning.

Let's not turn Holtby into something he isn't. Judging from his time with us, he's a hard working, enthusiastic but unspectacular player. He's been tried in 3 positions during his time with us and failed to stake a claim to be first choice in any of them. That is as true under AVB is that it is under Sherwood.

It is possible that he could go on to be a good player but if the manager does not fancy him, that is his prerogative.

Sherwood can put out the U13s if he thinks that they can get results. If he is wrong he will get the sack.

 

[tommysvr]

Would rather move Siggy on than Holtby.

 

[milo]

Would rather move Siggy on than Holtby.

Maybe Siggy is more prepared to stay and fight for his place or be a squad player.

 

[AdamB]

If anything we need to loan Holtby till the summer so the next manager can decide.

Holtby's twice the player Carroll will ever become; but Holtby's an AVB player.

Agreed. Either TS will be a success over the next few months and get CL football or he wont be and Levy will get Van Gaal in. As you say, LVG can then decide

Will be interesting to see what Levy does if we finish 5th - reason being that if we finish 4th then even Levy wont fire TS whereas if we finish 6th or below then Levy will probably feel that he has a reason for bringing someone provne like Van Gaal in. 5th place would be a grey area...

 

[Gutter Boy]

He's never been given the chance Milo.

No, what this smells of is Sherwood thinking how much he wants to dump any big name/AVB era signing and play a team of youth players which he thinks will be his own special Fergie "class of 92" awakening but will in fact turn us into ****ing Aston Villa.

Daaamn. I'm in a bad mood this morning.

Spot on. The Aston Villa/Paul Lambert comparison is very apt.

The problem is AVB massively overhauled our squad over the last 3 windows - turning over 15 players. In fact only Walker and Sandro really remain of Redknapp's signings.

If Timmeh wants to do the same thing again and rip it up and start again… again, we are going to be in big trouble.

Baldini now needs to step in and show some balls and put an end to this madness with some vetoing.

 

[AdamB]

Spot on. The Aston Villa/Paul Lambert comparison is very apt.

The problem is AVB massively overhauled our squad over the last 3 windows - turning over 15 players. In fact only Walker and Sandro really remain of Redknapp's signings.

If Timmeh wants to do the same thing again and rip it up and start again… again, we are going to be in big trouble.

Baldini now needs to step in and show some balls and put an end to this madness with some vetoing.

Relax. We wont start buying and selling dozens. Levy has one eye on changing manager in the summer so he wont overhaul the squad now. We're also half way through the window already so minimal time to do so anyway

 

[Armchair Expert]

Let's not turn Holtby into something he isn't. Judging from his time with us, he's a hard working, enthusiastic but unspectacular player. He's been tried in 3 positions during his time with us and failed to stake a claim to be first choice in any of them. That is as true under AVB is that it is under Sherwood.

It is possible that he could go on to be a good player but if the manager does not fancy him, that is his prerogative.

Sherwood can put out the U13s if he thinks that they can get results. If he is wrong he will get the sack.

I know a Schalke fan who is a football journalist in Austria for one of the nationals.

He said there was no way Holtby would make it at Spurs. He was surprised when we came in for him, and duly expected him not to make the grade.

Wasn't pulling up trees at Schalke by the time he left apparently. Said that his attitude was first class but lacked the necessary quality to cut it at the business end of the prem.

 

[camspur]

Spot on. The Aston Villa/Paul Lambert comparison is very apt.

The problem is AVB massively overhauled our squad over the last 3 windows - turning over 15 players. In fact only Walker and Sandro really remain of Redknapp's signings.

If Timmeh wants to do the same thing again and rip it up and start again… again, we are going to be in big trouble.

Baldini now needs to step in and show some balls and put an end to this madness with some vetoing.

Sherwood's been at the club for 5 years maybe he knows what the players can and cannot.

It might be a case of "rip it up and start again" or he may feel that we have players in our squad that can do just as well as the likes of Holtby (who Schalke, a top 4 club in Germany, were happy to get rid off) and Capoue and the money raised from selling "surplus" players can be used to strengthen where we really need it.

 

[monkeybarry]

Let's not turn Holtby into something he isn't. Judging from his time with us, he's a hard working, enthusiastic but unspectacular player. He's been tried in 3 positions during his time with us and failed to stake a claim to be first choice in any of them. That is as true under AVB is that it is under Sherwood.

It is possible that he could go on to be a good player but if the manager does not fancy him, that is his prerogative.

Sherwood can put out the U13s if he thinks that they can get results. If he is wrong he will get the sack.

i completely agree with this

i like Holtby, and i would like to see him stay and succeed - but i genuinely cannot see where he plays.

i think he is very much the same kind of signing as Pienaar was and will be good if he moves on. or maybe "effective" is a better word.
i actually think he is perfectly suited for Everton (not just coz of the support thing).

however, if we are to continue with a 4-4-2 that a winger one side and wide midfielder that tucks in on the other, i think Holtby is exactly the player i would want. he is a big Malbranque, in that he can thread through nice passes, but lacks the pace etc to be a winger. but he also has a work ethic that suits a player that becomes part of a three if needs be. i think he suits that role better than Siggy.

but, like with much of our squad, he is a player that would fill a CM (or part CM (ie wide midfielder that becomes part of a 3)) role - and we have a million of those without the kids (Bentalab, Carroll (if he is still a kid))

 

[monkeybarry]

Spot on. The Aston Villa/Paul Lambert comparison is very apt.

The problem is AVB massively overhauled our squad over the last 3 windows - turning over 15 players. In fact only Walker and Sandro really remain of Redknapp's signings.

If Timmeh wants to do the same thing again and rip it up and start again… again, we are going to be in big trouble.

Baldini now needs to step in and show some balls and put an end to this madness with some vetoing.

now THAT will cause us a lot of trouble.

what he needs to do is work with Sherwood to create a plan and vision and work together to acheive that squad set up that will get results - not micro manage the head coach, otherwise we may as well have Baldini in charge.
in that scenario, there will have to be give and take - Sherwood will have to coach to get best out of his resources and Baldini will have to direct to get the best squad balance available within the clubs capabilities

 

[Dicko]

Maybe shipping 1 or 2 unwanted players out now.. rather than letting them get unhappy, will free up room for the summer and will be less of a impact for next year.
I mean.. instead of keeping everyone around now (and having some unhappy/unsed players for the next few months) and then having to again sell 5 to make room for bringing in another 5 during the Summer window we are already planning ahead and getting rid of a couple now... people will also have forgotten by the summer and it would just feel like some minor re-shaping rather than another overhaul like the last window.

 

[Finney Is Back]

If anything we need to loan Holtby till the summer so the next manager can decide.

Holtby's twice the player Carroll will ever become; but Holtby's an AVB player.

In that case we should be getting rid of both of them as soon as we can while they still have some resale value.... Although I'm not sure how you are already able to judge that Holtby is twice the player Carroll will ever become?

 

[milo]

Spot on. The Aston Villa/Paul Lambert comparison is very apt.

The problem is AVB massively overhauled our squad over the last 3 windows - turning over 15 players. In fact only Walker and Sandro really remain of Redknapp's signings.

If Timmeh wants to do the same thing again and rip it up and start again… again, we are going to be in big trouble.

Baldini now needs to step in and show some balls and put an end to this madness with some vetoing.

Sherwood has been part of the "transfer committee" since Redknapp left, so he has been involved in transfer discussions for a while. Hopefully, this means that we will not see wholesale changes to the squad.

However, any new manager coming in is going to have his own ideas and will want to stamp his mark on the squad. This inevitably means some turnover in players.

 

[indianspur]

SpursTV just wont be the same without Holtby

 

[Lost Mango]

Sherwood has been part of the "transfer committee" since Redknapp left, so he has been involved in transfer discussions for a while. Hopefully, this means that we will not see wholesale changes to the squad.

However, any new manager coming in is going to have his own ideas and will want to stamp his mark on the squad. This inevitably means some turnover in players.

Depending on whether you have a genuine old style manager or a head coach system where the DoF is the key and not just a glorified chief scout.

Surely the point of a DoF is to say this is the squad, this is what you have to play with, make it work. Sure there should be conversations prior to windows but in our set up there shouldn't be really the need for much change now, esp. as Deadwood was part of the system and club ethos and part of the decision making process that brought all the players in over the last 3 to 5 years. Baldini should presumably have the final word on in and out at this point and presumably still sees the point of the players that have been signed?

 

[braineclipse]

Holtby wasn't a big name AVB era signing, just one of many players signed while AVB was here. He was a squad player at best under AVB and there were no signs that AVB would feature him regularly as a starter in the league. Several people have even claimed he was a Levy signing more than anything and just another player AVB didn't really want...

 

[milo]

Depending on whether you have a genuine old style manager or a head coach system where the DoF is the key and not just a glorified chief scout.

Surely the point of a DoF is to say this is the squad, this is what you have to play with, make it work. Sure there should be conversations prior to windows but in our set up there shouldn't be really the need for much change now, esp. as Deadwood was part of the system and club ethos and part of the decision making process that brought all the players in over the last 3 to 5 years. Baldini should presumably have the final word on in and out at this point and presumably still sees the point of the players that have been signed?

You would hope that a DoF will minimise the impact of a change in manager but ours has only been in place for six months and wasn't behind the signing of Holtby. I do not think that we are going to see wholesale changes in the squad, in part because Sherwood had an input into building it. If Sherwood wants to clear out a handful of fringe players to either raise funds to sign players in areas he thinks we need improvements or because he wants to free up space to promote players from the development squad then I think he should be free to do that. Of course, I would hope that he would work with Baldini and that we utilise his contacts and knowledge.

 

[Lily White]

Holtby wasn't a big name AVB era signing, just one of many players signed while AVB was here. He was a squad player at best under AVB and there were no signs that AVB would feature him regularly as a starter in the league. Several people have even claimed he was a Levy signing more than anything and just another player AVB didn't really want...

Seems like another Pienaar type signing, sign them for free or cheap as chips and sell them on for a tidy profit.