I suspect you'll find a better correlation between number of crosses in match and how well the underdog performs.
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Tactics Thread
- Thread starter diego_maradona
- Start date
If only we had someone on this forum to tell us stuff like that....
It's probably more to do with the number of players in the opposition box, which is why set-pieces are more dangerous than crosses from open play (the attacking team can load up the opposition box with their players on a set-piece). Likewise, chasing a cup game, teams will go for broke and throw more men into the box in open play. When you can create chaos (bodies in the box) and pressure (situation of the game), crosses are useful.
For general play, they are a useful variant in attack to keep the opposition on their toes and make the play less predictable. If 10 times out of 10 the player passes the ball inside/cuts inside, the opposition can prepare against that more easily than if the player only does it 8/10 times, trying to go on the outside the other 2 times. The fact that the attacking player is prepared to do something else (i.e. go on the outside and cross) means that the defending team must allow for that possibility -- and that in itself might increase the effectiveness of the regular attacking moves (i.e. going inside those 8 times out of 10).
If the defending team is clever they'll allow the cross and accept a 1 in 30 goal rate.
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
But that's 1 in 30 if defended, if you stand back and allow crosses it would be more.
Very bad example of stats, would expect better from you
WTF are you talking about?But that's 1 in 30 if defended, if you stand back and allow crosses it would be more.
Very bad example of stats, would expect better from you
All offensive moves are defended. I'm suggesting that if a team wants to attack via the flanks then let them. Block the middle and you'll almost never concede.
Glenda's Legs
Paul Walsh
This looks like an interesting read, although I haven't had time to read more than the first few paragaphs as yet. It's quite long, so perhaps one to bookmark. There are additional links at the end to more articles on the same topic.
https://talkingtottenhamtactics.wor...hettinos-title-challenging-tottenham-hotspur/
https://talkingtottenhamtactics.wor...hettinos-title-challenging-tottenham-hotspur/
milo
Jack L. Jones
It's a good article
Mulletperm
Mauricio Taricco
I'd still like to see how we'd go with Kane in a more withdrawn role and another player as the main striker. Kane's intelligence and shooting prowess from distance would be a great balance to an out and out striker type who has great movement playing in front of him.
Just not sure how the attacking 3 behind the striker would look.
Just not sure how the attacking 3 behind the striker would look.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Would agree and said the same thing last summer, Kane ( imo) would be a even better player as the man behind a main striker.
On those rare occasions when we had the ball then maybe we'd find out!
Spur of the moment
Frederic Kanoute
Strongly disagree.
Play Kane in a withdrawn role and scoring is no longer his main objective. His instinct is that of a striker, he wants to score goals. Play him in a withdrawn position and suddenly he's further from goal, meaning he is expected to pass more and shoot less.
Yes he has the talent to bringing others in to play but scoring is what he is mainly about, take that away from him and you risk blunting his edge. He is the main man, you won't easily finder another striker to put up top who will score 20+ a season and I'm guessing he would not be happy in a withdrawn role either.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
Kane's hunger for goals would mean he would always have that moments hesitation deciding to go himself or pass that's means we lose the oppurtunity.
Keep him where he is doing what he does best.
Keep him where he is doing what he does best.
Once upon a time I would have said yes to this idea as using Kane in a deeper role. But not now. He is a goalscorer plain and simple.
Hashegotthesackyet?
Gudni Bergsson
When he first came into the team, he showed he could be a 9, 9 1/2 or 10.
Now, with his haul in 2 consecutive seasons, he's the main man for the number 9.
I wouldn't swap him for anyone in that position.
Now, with his haul in 2 consecutive seasons, he's the main man for the number 9.
I wouldn't swap him for anyone in that position.
alekaras
The ITK of IDK
Messi plays in a withdrawn role, but that doesn't keep him from scoring boat loads of goals. Kane is no Messi, but it also doesn't mean playing withdrawn will hinder his scoring.
Spur of the moment
Frederic Kanoute
Very good counter argument. But I'm guessing there is an essential difference between the two, in that Kane strikes me as so hungry for goals he would be less suited to playing in a deeper role. Anyhow either way we have to leave it to Poch to decide how best to utilise him.
alekaras
The ITK of IDK
Good article. One disagreement is that Dier's role is at the back, but interesting read otherwise.
Cochise
Steve Carr
After the Germany vs Italy match, I had a look at the Spurs squad and whether or not we have the ability to imitate either side by moving to a 3 at the back. There was an article posted earlier today which focussed on the emergence of the 352 at tournaments and how the three man back line is nothing more than a counter attacking solution to the two man attack. The article summised that because we rarely see two strikers playing alongside eachother at club level, the use of a two man defence is common place. To use a three man defence in these games would be tactically wrong as you would leave yourself unbalanced or outnumbered in midfield.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...has-3-5-2-worked-at-euro-2016-jonathan-wilson
In the Germany vs Italy match though Germany used their back three aggressively with Hummels and Howedes both stepping forward with the ball and forcing Italy to mark them with a front 3, pulling one of their midfielders up to instigate a press. The result was that it left Ozil, Khedira/Schweinsteiger and Kroos free to create passing options with only the two remaining Italian midfielders available to mark them. This became even more potent higher up the field, when Muller would drop into the space between the lines to create a further options, before dashing into space when play moved forward.
-----------------CB-----------------
------CB--------------------CB------
-----------------CM-----------------
RB------CM------------CM--------LB
----------------#10-----------------
------------------------------------
-----------------ST-----------------
So what about Spurs??
Firstly, it is fair to say that we do already play very closely to this manner. Dier does alternate between playing as a 3rd CB and a DM, leaving Dembele to find space in the next area of the field. Vertonghen, Wimmer and Alderweireld have all demonstrated that they are happy advancing with the ball and do not panic when confronted by an opposition player pressing them. Not just there, but our front four do already work in a rough diamond shape, with Lamela and Eriksen dropping deep, whilst Alli switches between playing as a 3rd CM and a vaguely #10 role off of Kane.
It is true that at times we have seen Eriksen drop deeper to play almost alongside Dembele, whilst Alli and Lamela have worked around Kane, but for large periods of this season, it would be fair to say that we have looked close to having a system that looks like;
-----Alderweireld---Dier---Vertonghen------
-------------------Dembele-------------------
Walker---Lamela----------Eriksen------Rose
----------------------Alli---------------------
---------------------Kane--------------------
This isn't a million miles away from the model that Germany adpoted vs Italy.
My personal preference were we to adopt this model, would be something closer to;
---------------------Dier--------------------
-----Alderweireld---------Vertonghen-----
------------------Dembele-----------------
Walker------Alli---------Eriksen-------Rose
-------------------Kane--------------------
-------------------------------------------
------------------New ST------------------
Reasons for Kane dropping deep?
I've been one of Kane's big supporters in keeping him as the main striker because at the moment the system suits the way he plays. Were we to move to a 352, moving him back into the deeper role behind the main man would in some ways suit him. He wouldn't be wasted in a physical duel against two big defenders and could focus more on finding and exploiting the space between the lines, something he is good at. Not only that, but his ability to shoot from distance could be utilised to greater effect. He would still be the second choice for the #9 role, but he would still get plenty of rest with players like Alli and Son in the squad and able to pick up the #10 role.
Cover in positions?
Alli and Eriksen can be covered by Lamela, Dembele, Son, Onomah and Pritchard.
Wanyama can feasibly cover Dembele as could Winks if we were looking to play a more progressive player in front of the back three. We also stil have Bentaleb, Mason and Carroll all able to do a job there.
Kane could be covered by Lamela,Alli and Son. Were we looking to move to a counter attacking system, then N'jie would be great working off of a lone front man (think Emirates Marketing Project).
In defence we have Wimmer and Davies able to cover the two main CB's.
Purchases and Casualties?
Janssen seems to be looking like a big possibility for the front man position. Even with that purchase looking a distinct possibility, we are still linked to a few others. A second player for the ST role would be needed for the squad if this system were used. With Davies looking like a wide CB at the tournament a new LB to rotate with Rose may be required (note made of reported interest in Jonas Hector).
We would probably see Fazio, Yedlin, Chadli, Mason, Carroll and Bentaleb (maybe) sold to fund any extra purchases.
NB: This is just a theoretical piece aimed at exploring the possibilities available to us. Given our current purchases and the fact that we are settled into it, I think we will be looking at another year of the same system.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...has-3-5-2-worked-at-euro-2016-jonathan-wilson
In the Germany vs Italy match though Germany used their back three aggressively with Hummels and Howedes both stepping forward with the ball and forcing Italy to mark them with a front 3, pulling one of their midfielders up to instigate a press. The result was that it left Ozil, Khedira/Schweinsteiger and Kroos free to create passing options with only the two remaining Italian midfielders available to mark them. This became even more potent higher up the field, when Muller would drop into the space between the lines to create a further options, before dashing into space when play moved forward.
-----------------CB-----------------
------CB--------------------CB------
-----------------CM-----------------
RB------CM------------CM--------LB
----------------#10-----------------
------------------------------------
-----------------ST-----------------
So what about Spurs??
Firstly, it is fair to say that we do already play very closely to this manner. Dier does alternate between playing as a 3rd CB and a DM, leaving Dembele to find space in the next area of the field. Vertonghen, Wimmer and Alderweireld have all demonstrated that they are happy advancing with the ball and do not panic when confronted by an opposition player pressing them. Not just there, but our front four do already work in a rough diamond shape, with Lamela and Eriksen dropping deep, whilst Alli switches between playing as a 3rd CM and a vaguely #10 role off of Kane.
It is true that at times we have seen Eriksen drop deeper to play almost alongside Dembele, whilst Alli and Lamela have worked around Kane, but for large periods of this season, it would be fair to say that we have looked close to having a system that looks like;
-----Alderweireld---Dier---Vertonghen------
-------------------Dembele-------------------
Walker---Lamela----------Eriksen------Rose
----------------------Alli---------------------
---------------------Kane--------------------
This isn't a million miles away from the model that Germany adpoted vs Italy.
My personal preference were we to adopt this model, would be something closer to;
---------------------Dier--------------------
-----Alderweireld---------Vertonghen-----
------------------Dembele-----------------
Walker------Alli---------Eriksen-------Rose
-------------------Kane--------------------
-------------------------------------------
------------------New ST------------------
Reasons for Kane dropping deep?
I've been one of Kane's big supporters in keeping him as the main striker because at the moment the system suits the way he plays. Were we to move to a 352, moving him back into the deeper role behind the main man would in some ways suit him. He wouldn't be wasted in a physical duel against two big defenders and could focus more on finding and exploiting the space between the lines, something he is good at. Not only that, but his ability to shoot from distance could be utilised to greater effect. He would still be the second choice for the #9 role, but he would still get plenty of rest with players like Alli and Son in the squad and able to pick up the #10 role.
Cover in positions?
Alli and Eriksen can be covered by Lamela, Dembele, Son, Onomah and Pritchard.
Wanyama can feasibly cover Dembele as could Winks if we were looking to play a more progressive player in front of the back three. We also stil have Bentaleb, Mason and Carroll all able to do a job there.
Kane could be covered by Lamela,Alli and Son. Were we looking to move to a counter attacking system, then N'jie would be great working off of a lone front man (think Emirates Marketing Project).
In defence we have Wimmer and Davies able to cover the two main CB's.
Purchases and Casualties?
Janssen seems to be looking like a big possibility for the front man position. Even with that purchase looking a distinct possibility, we are still linked to a few others. A second player for the ST role would be needed for the squad if this system were used. With Davies looking like a wide CB at the tournament a new LB to rotate with Rose may be required (note made of reported interest in Jonas Hector).
We would probably see Fazio, Yedlin, Chadli, Mason, Carroll and Bentaleb (maybe) sold to fund any extra purchases.
NB: This is just a theoretical piece aimed at exploring the possibilities available to us. Given our current purchases and the fact that we are settled into it, I think we will be looking at another year of the same system.