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Summer 2018 transfer thread

galeforce said:
we are customers of the club, we buy tickets and merchandise, if we don't get the product we are buying we have the right to question that, and thats where the line is (obviously its different for share holders, they get their forum at the shareholder meetings)

I'm a customer of Apple's too, if my iPhone catches fire I have a right to complain, I don't have a right to bitch to Tim Cook about which hot startup Apple should purchase next
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Totally agree.

If the trust wanted to be taken more seriously and if they truly ‘understood’ everything they claim to, if they had to release a cringe worthy letter they could have started from the position of genuinely understanding where the club is, and how it does things. Maybe the question isn’t ‘an explanation of what has happened in the window’ but ‘given we’ve kept players we were happy to move on, how certain is the club that they can be reintegrated into what is a close knit environment where bad apples are usually bombed out quickly.

But even then, that’s asking Poch to explain his working and it just shouldn’t be the role of a trust. It’s so embarrassing. As people have said, asking for a believable and credible explanation, as if the club’s default position is to lie, really does take the cake. The fact is they wouldn’t even be capable of understanding what has happened if they were actually told - because if they truly understood they wouldn’t need to write that letter. Someone said it best on Twitter - self important garbage pandering to the loud minority.
 
Parklaner81 said:
Actually, as far as I'm aware, they don't even get that anymore!

A large chunk of the final AGM before the club was taken private consisted of pleas from shareholders for the board to continue to hold an annual shareholder meeting (which, I believe, they were no longer obliged to do once private). Despite repeated requests and arguments, the board would not give a commitment to do so - and so, I presume, there is no longer any shareholder meeting?

Can anyone clarify that?
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I wasn't aware of that.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
The early draws against Swansea, Burnley and WBA plus the loss to Chelsea were all part of the same settling in period. Once we settled we were fine, and it wasn’t so much losses, just those dropped points in drawing games we really should be winning. That Swansea 0-0 was brutal.
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We will draw or lose games we really "should" win, this season too.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Totally agree.

If the trust wanted to be taken more seriously and if they truly ‘understood’ everything they claim to, if they had to release a cringe worthy letter they could have started from the position of genuinely understanding where the club is, and how it does things. Maybe the question isn’t ‘an explanation of what has happened in the window’ but ‘given we’ve kept players we were happy to move on, how certain is the club that they can be reintegrated into what is a close knit environment where bad apples are usually bombed out quickly.

But even then, that’s asking Poch to explain his working and it just shouldn’t be the role of a trust. It’s so embarrassing. As people have said, asking for a believable and credible explanation, as if the club’s default position is to lie, really does take the cake. The fact is they wouldn’t even be capable of understanding what has happened if they were actually told - because if they truly understood they wouldn’t need to write that letter. Someone said it best on Twitter - self important garbage pandering to the loud minority.
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They want information which no right minded business would put in the public domain.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I guess the question is which one of those two seasons was the anomaly? My perception is that last season at Wembley was more 'normal' than our final season at WHL - which was probably our best ever season at home in our history?
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Perhaps. Maybe a middle ground is what reality should be. I just thought it was no coincidence that the Swansea, WBA, and Burnley games all came within a close few weeks, and we only scraped past Bournemouth with a similarly stilted performance too.

We will certainly drop points in winnable games every season, I just think the fact that these games all came within a close bunch suggests something was a problem. 17 and 2 is an outrageous home record, but we could have gotten closer to it again I reckon.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
I've supported this club for over 60 years and never in that time believed or expected the club to explain to me how the owners run it. If I felt as strong about issues with the club I would simply stop going as I would with any product,
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That's the thing, though - you probably won't. Clubs know this - their fans are inelastic consumers with unparalled brand loyalty and no other options. It isn't like toothpaste where you can switch to another brand. And thus, you will stick it out and go even if you hate how things are run, because you have no choice and love the club too deeply.

Clubs know this. And while German clubs and some clubs in other countries respect this, English clubs - all of them, without exception save for AFC Wimbledon - do not.
 
galeforce said:
They want information which no right minded business would put in the public domain.
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Customers have a right to complain, and if supporters are nothing but customers, then the customers are always right.

You can't have it both ways - you can't be both a believer in the idea that supporting a club means something, and also believe that clubs are just businesses and should be run like businesses.

Either you're a customer, or you're a supporter. You're not both - customers don't give a damn if Samsung goes under, they'll just buy another phone from another company. But people care about clubs enough to try and save them when they go bankrupt, and form deep and lasting emotional connections with their clubs that they pass on to their kids.

It's a shame that people (not you necessarily, more broadly) think it entirely appropriate for a club to be run like a cold, amoral business, but also get angry at supporters repaying that by turning into coldly demanding customers themselves.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Customers have a right to complain, and if supporters are nothing but customers, then the customers are always right.

You can't have it both ways - you can't be both a believer in the idea that supporting a club means something, and also believe that clubs are just businesses and should be run like businesses.

Either you're a customer, or you're a supporter. You're not both - customers don't give a damn if Samsung goes under, they'll just buy another phone from another company. But people care about clubs enough to try and save them when they go bankrupt, and form deep and lasting emotional connections with their clubs that they pass on to their kids.

It's a shame that people (not you necessarily, more broadly) think it entirely appropriate for a club to be run like a cold, amoral business, but also get angry at supporters repaying that by turning into coldly demanding customers themselves.
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the customer isn't always right, if they were, Ford would have sold horses

its not a binary situation, I am interested in the performance of Tottenham Hotspur football club, their success pleases me, their failures depress me, but I have no right to any influence, I buy stuff, match tickets, t-shirts for my kids, I am both a customer and a supporter, they come with distinctions, they are not the same thing

you can't separate the sport from the business, financial foundations are important, I think they should be run that way, my issue is that the "coldly demanding customers" don't seem to understand what they have purchased, it doesn't say anything in the terms on entry on my match ticket about new signings or transfer war chests
 
Just looks like made to play at this level. Very impressed with him. Expecting big thing this season from him with his ability.
 
ShipOfGoldblum said:
The club invites the trust apparatchiks round for tea and biscuits every so often and briefs them in a fair amount of detail. It's not normal to suggest publicly and overtly that people with whom you have that sort of relationship are habitual liars.
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I've heard Kat Law and Martin Cloake complain on podcasts that the club do misinform them and treat them (and fans in general) with a certain level of disrespect... it is probably a cycle where the Trust rub the Club up the wrong way and vice versa until the itch becomes a fracture becomes a rift. Martin definitely comes across as a lefty Unionist.

Seems Kat does a lot of good stuff for supporters e.g. looking after those battered by foreign police

One can read about them here http://www.thstofficial.com/meet-the-thst-board-members.html#

I'm not a member of THST and don't think I ever will be
 
Bullet said:
I've heard Kat Law and Martin Cloake complain on podcasts that the club do misinform them and treat them (and fans in general) with a certain level of disrespect... it is probably a cycle where the Trust rub the Club up the wrong way and vice versa until the itch becomes a fracture becomes a rift. Martin definitely comes across as a lefty Unionist.

Seems Kat does a lot of good stuff for supporters e.g. looking after those battered by foreign police

One can read about them here http://www.thstofficial.com/meet-the-thst-board-members.html#

I'm not a member of THST and don't think I ever will be
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I’m not surprised. If they understood the businsess the club was operating in, the club would probably think they are quite useful. As they are, they’re an annoyance. They don’t get it.
 
Bullet said:
I've heard Kat Law and Martin Cloake complain on podcasts that the club do misinform them and treat them (and fans in general) with a certain level of disrespect... it is probably a cycle where the Trust rub the Club up the wrong way and vice versa until the itch becomes a fracture becomes a rift. Martin definitely comes across as a lefty Unionist.

Seems Kat does a lot of good stuff for supporters e.g. looking after those battered by foreign police

One can read about them here http://www.thstofficial.com/meet-the-thst-board-members.html#

I'm not a member of THST and don't think I ever will be
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So Cloake is a PR by trade. Well, B2B journo and PR, which is a bit like dividing one’s time between poaching and gamekeeping. And Law has a marcomms background too. Which makes the intemperance of the letter all the more interesting, it’s not accidental.

Expect you’re right about the dynamic between trust and club. It must be tough being a self-appointed channel for fan rage when most of us are pretty happy.
 
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