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Summer 2018 transfer thread

Who am I?

"He's a big player, at times he did well" ... "But in critical situations, I felt tracking back and what we needed for the team in a relegation battle just wasn't there.

"He is a match-winner, but at times it was difficult to play in the same team. The manager would let him get away with certain things."

Bullet dodged.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
While Im all for Chelsea getting fudged, and us over taking them - and agree they seem to be in a transition transfer wise - I wont be changing my views on their attitude to young players until it demonstrably changes.

Until then, they are as they were, exploitative of the loan market, farming young players for profit with no intent of playing them.
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As the price of the next William skyrockets and Roman seems to be going with 'feck this for a game of soldiers'. They will have to start using their all their resources far more astutely.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
That ignores the point on a players development.

NDombele today is very attractive to us because he spent a year playing in Lyons first team, IMO. Had we bought him a year ago, do you think he would have developed similarly? I dont, I dont think he would have had the opportunity to play anywhere near as much and as such would have had a more stunted growth.

And THATS the catch.
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Well last summer we didn't have the need/space for a DM/CM in the squad so the particular point regarding Ndombele is moot - right now id advocate signing him as an established player as we need a Dembele replacement as a matter of urgency imo and the supposed value of the player is reasonable. That'd give us a first XI player and with our academy options players for the future.
 
The Mahrez example is fudged IMO

In his first season in the prem he was mainly a sub as they didn’t fancy him (with their then management)
He came on as a sub against us at WHL and scared the life out of us... yet their fans and club didn’t value him

They changed managers and system and he also developed as a player and low and behold. He became the messiah
 
StephenH said:
As the price of the next William skyrockets and Roman seems to be going with 'feck this for a game of soldiers'. They will have to start using their all their resources far more astutely.
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Not arguing, per se - it certainly looks that way - but until it happens I wont be talking as if anything has changed.


billyiddo said:
Well last summer we didn't have the need/space for a DM/CM in the squad so the particular point regarding Ndombele is moot - right now id advocate signing him as an established player as we need a Dembele replacement as a matter of urgency imo and the supposed value of the player is reasonable. That'd give us a first XI player and with our academy options players for the future.
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I think that misses the point. You're talking about getting "A NDombele" before he is "NDombele", as in - get him when Lyon did rathe rthan paying more now. Unless I am mistaken?

My point is - had we done that - it is most likely he wouldnt be the player he is today thanks to the lack of opportunity he would most likely have had.

The point is not NDombele specifically, but what that year at Lyon (or anywhere!) is worth in a players development compared to being in our stiffs.

We have a greater need for immediate quality than before, and less opportunity to risk developing players in the the first team. Which means we need to pick our "projects" very carefully, as they will be fewer and farther between.



Bedfordspurs said:
The Mahrez example is fudged IMO

In his first season in the prem he was mainly a sub as they didn’t fancy him (with their then management)
He came on as a sub against us at WHL and scared the life out of us... yet their fans and club didn’t value him

They changed managers and system and he also developed as a player and low and behold. He became the messiah
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This was basically my point, Mahrez today (super player) was not the same player in the Championship, or the first season up (until toward the end, he showed promise). It was the following season he really took off. Thats a fair period to have a player develop, baring in mind he played regularly for Leicester and most certainly wouldnt have played as regularly for us - would he have developed in the same way? Almost certainly not IMHO.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
think that misses the point. You're talking about getting "A NDombele" before he is "NDombele", as in - get him when Lyon did rathe rthan paying more now. Unless I am mistaken?

Yes, but the player himself is an example purely of an established that would improve us that at some point would have been available on better terms as an answer to the notion that only 70m+ established players can improve the team which has been repeatedly put forward - lyon signed him on loan from Lille, he went straight in to their team and performed to a high level - there will be players across Europe that would similarly make the step up, we just don't have the player identification setup to find them.

My point is - had we done that - it is most likely he wouldnt be the player he is today thanks to the lack of opportunity he would most likely have had.

Alli came in from League 1 and hit the ground running, Dier from Portugal, Sanchez from Holland having played there a year, young players can and do step up under the right circumstances and at Spurs we have a coaching team that seemingly thrives on getting the most out of young players, provided the potential and application is there - any young player of that vein that a good scouting team identifies i would have faith in them making the most of the opportunity.

The point is not NDombele specifically, but what that year at Lyon (or anywhere!) is worth in a players development compared to being in our stiffs.

We have a greater need for immediate quality than before, and less opportunity to risk developing players in the the first team. Which means we need to pick our "projects" very carefully, as they will be fewer and farther between.

I think we have differing ideas as to where we need established quality, what established quality actually is and how great that need is.
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@billyiddo , I know you believe in there being a pool of players out there we can dip into - and while I dont think you are wrong per se - I do think your lack of ability to specify players speaks to the issue.

These players are out there, but are VERY rare.

What Alli did was freakish, you dont get Alli type players very often. And while NDombele did well for Lyon, the premiership is a step up from there, there is no guarantee he will have done similar for us at all.

The fact is, we did get Alli, we did get Dier - so we clearly are looking for these players. I dont know how much better we can really do.

Would I like us to improve? Of course. I want us to improve everything. Do I think its a game changer? Well, not really.

Digging out an absolute gem like that is brilliant, but rare. Im sure we will do our best but we cant build a policy around it, it needs to be a supplement to a more reliable policy.

Which seems to be targetting players who are already expensive (thanks to the market, honestly - what would Zaha have cost a few years ago?).

Not that I think we target specifically expensive players. Rather we target players of the required quality and availability, and it turns out the cost a lot.

Look at Sanchez last summer, massive money at the time - looks a bargain now. Its not like he was established as quality, he had only 1 year in europe at that time in an inferior league, still cost a bomb though.
 
My lack of naming specific players only speaks for my lack of indepth knowledge of football abroad mate afaic
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Yes, comment from Charlie Adam.

When someone like him thinks you arent putting the yards in or showing the right attitude it speaks volumes!
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The devil in me says it a very bad day for us all here when we start using the testimony from a total numpty like CA as a reason to back up our likes or dislike of any player.

Shaqiri will be an interesting watch this season.
 
billyiddo said:
My lack of naming specific players only speaks for my lack of indepth knowledge of football abroad mate afaic
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And also the fact its not that easy.

Bare in mind, with technology and social media etc these days, are there even really any unknowns?

Its more a case of who is willing to gamble, and when, and who can accommodate that sort of move, risk appetite, than actually finding players.

As you mention Alli, Liverpool were in for him at the same time - Rodgers had a famously creepy hotel meeting with him just before we signed him. Even that example doesnt entire fit the unearthing a gem narrative.
 
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I was more using Alli as an example of a young player playing in a 'weak' league who can hit the ground running to counter the we cant wait for players to adapt line of thinking.

Torreria that Arsenal have signed is a player who transfered for relative peanuts who looks to have all the tools to succeed in the Prem, will be interesting to see how long he needs to settle in.
 
StephenH said:
The devil in me says it a very bad day for us all here when we start using the testimony from a total numpty like CA as a reason to back up our likes or dislike of any player.

Shaqiri will be an interesting watch this season.
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I think it speaks volumes when someone so despicable doesnt rate his attitude either! And I cant stand Adam.

And, to a degree, it does back up those saying his attitude isnt right. When team mates publicly say brick about someone, thats a pretty big deal. Most dont say anything.

This season Shakiri will, absolutely, score a few screamers. And, on a couple of occasions, look the real deal. Other than that he will be a passenger and end up as super-sub, IMO.

I genuinely do not feel we have missed out in the slightest.
 
billyiddo said:
I was more using Alli as an example of a young player playing in a 'weak' league who can hit the ground running to counter the we cant wait for players to adapt line of thinking.

Torreria that Arsenal have signed is a player who transfered for relative peanuts who looks to have all the tools to succeed in the Prem, will be interesting to see how long he needs to settle in.
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Its an example, but they are scarce - thats the point.

Look - Im not saying I dont want to find those players - it would be madness not to. Im just saying they are like rocking horse brick and so not a policy we can pursue as a main way of getting players.

We are at a level where we have little choice but to spent (relatively) big, IMO.
 
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