Squad

[billyiddo]

Depends how Devine does this season and Donely develops. There are two ideal fits for that role, if their trajectories continue like they are

Potentially an option but atm with Maddison coming off the bench the past couple of games he hasn't been used so you'd have to assume he's not at that level currently

 

[braineclipse]

A few comments (I've been absent)

- Sancho is a no go, players who lose years of development are a dead end, Sancho, Havertz, Pulisic, etc will never hit what they were expected to. Multiple years of not enough games, no fixed position and low confidence means they are pretty much done.

Re the squad immediate needs

- LB & CB are scary thin right now
- In attack the question will be do we settle on Son as our first choice in middle, then try to add a top level AM/Winger type? (Jota, Mitoma, Eze?)
- What is our plan for the academy/youth? beyond Veliz & Gil, we have 3 or 4 that are pushing hard (More, Santiago, Donley) from Academy, do they see minutes?

Question for the board

- Would you go for Mitoma if it meant no more AT options (so Son in middle, rotate Richi & Veliz) as we would likely pay >£60M (think his contract is running out but Brighton will squeeze)
- Jota, higher wages, less fee, no PL experience, younger
- Go for a central striker?
- Or go for a right winger, someone to push Deki?
- Where does Johnson fit if we add attacking options?

Agreed on Sancho overall I think.

Left back isn't scary thin imo with Davies there. CB could be an issue for sure. Yet to see what Dier or one of the younger players could do, but probably need some business in January.

Son to me is a striker in this system. He's not really suited to the wide role. We have Richarlison and Veliz too. A wide attacker for me, either a standout talent or a game changing starter, ideally someone who could also cover for Maddison. Eze would be fantastic imo. I think Johnson could fit in anywhere in the front three given time really.

Then there's the question of central midfield. Hojbjerg has covered well, provided an option. We'll have Bentancur back. But I'm unconvinced about both PEH and Skipp in this system for the two deeper roles. If we were to sell one of them I think we should look to bring in a replacement.

 

[braineclipse]

I'd just sign Lloyd Kelly to cover CB and LB and leave the rest till the summer. We're well enough covered in the other areas, even if Hojbjerg and Lo Celso go.

Part of our new approach has got to be leaving pathways for academy player. We need to be seeing about 3 of Phillips, John, Donley, Santiago, Veliz etc. on the bench every week, instead of the bed blockers the last 3 managers filled their squad with.

We need to keep paths open, but we also need to be realistic about what we can expect from those younger players in terms of an immediate impact if needed.

And be realistic about how we can strengthen our starting 11 to really push on either in January or next summer. For me that one role we actually could upgrade on immediately is left wing. That may be harsh on Santiago who could perhaps do a job there. But if the chance is there to push on...

No need to sign "squad players" though. Apart from maybe one or two positions.

 

[billyiddo]

We need to keep paths open, but we also need to be realistic about what we can expect from those younger players in terms of an immediate impact if needed.

And be realistic about how we can strengthen our starting 11 to really push on either in January or next summer. For me that one role we actually could upgrade on immediately is left wing. That may be harsh on Santiago who could perhaps do a job there. But if the chance is there to push on...

No need to sign "squad players" though. Apart from maybe one or two positions.

Johnson, Solomon & Richarlson plus potentially Gil for LW atm by my count, I don't think we'll be buying there until we whittle that down

 

[braineclipse]

Johnson, Solomon & Richarlson plus potentially Gil for LW atm by my count, I don't think we'll be buying there until we whittle that down

The way I see it Richarlison is primarily a striker in this system. Emergency LW now because of injuries.

I agree on Johnson, Solomon and Gil. But those are also our RW options to Kulusevski. That's four players for two positions, which is what we want. Though Gil may also be an option for the Maddison role?

This may change in the coming weeks or months. But so far none of those players have made themselves a first choice, sure down to injuries for some of them.

We all agree that we need to strengthen our depth. One of the best ways of doing that is to strengthen the starting 11 making current starters the depth/squad/competition players. I think LW is the one position where we could realistically do that. I don't think we can in any other positions (assuming Bentancur comes back to his best).

If one of them steps up properly that will change it for me, but so far I think we should be looking for top level options for that role in January, or top level talents that are already good enough to compete for a starting spot.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The way I see it Richarlison is primarily a striker in this system. Emergency LW now because of injuries.

I agree on Johnson, Solomon and Gil. But those are also our RW options to Kulusevski. That's four players for two positions, which is what we want. Though Gil may also be an option for the Maddison role?

This may change in the coming weeks or months. But so far none of those players have made themselves a first choice, sure down to injuries for some of them.

We all agree that we need to strengthen our depth. One of the best ways of doing that is to strengthen the starting 11 making current starters the depth/squad/competition players. I think LW is the one position where we could realistically do that. I don't think we can in any other positions (assuming Bentancur comes back to his best).

If one of them steps up properly that will change it for me, but so far I think we should be looking for top level options for that role in January, or top level talents that are already good enough to compete for a starting spot.

I’d we did that though we would have another problem on selling some of what we have
It’s that fine balance
As much as we as fans want the best players we can get, the counter is a a manager may want players who understand his system more until the summer
Add in the January premium too
I do agree that left wing is the area of focus though

 

[braineclipse]

I’d we did that though we would have another problem on selling some of what we have
It’s that fine balance
As much as we as fans want the best players we can get, the counter is a a manager may want players who understand his system more until the summer
Add in the January premium too
I do agree that left wing is the area of focus though

Whatever Ange wants is fine by me. But if we're going to try to strengthen the starting 11 in January I think that's the position/role to go for. And there should at least be a thought about the possibility of strengthening the starting 11 in January.

 

[Lilbaz]

Is philips actually better than donnington? Or is he assumed to be so because we bought him?

 

[braineclipse]

Is philips actually better than donnington? Or is he assumed to be so because we bought him?

I have no idea. To me there shouldn't be any special treatment of one over the other just because one was signed and the other wasn't. I think Ange will give chances to whoever impresses him more regardless. Good problem to have.

 

[Raziel]

Is philips actually better than donnington? Or is he assumed to be so because we bought him?

Philips is a absolute unit (young/smaller CB's can be bullied in the PL) and has championship experience, both would put him a bit ahead of Donnington in pecking order.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Philips is a absolute unit (young/smaller CB's can be bullied in the PL) and has championship experience, both would put him a bit ahead of Donnington in pecking order.

He's also named in the first team squad on the website, whereas Donnington isn't. And he's been on the bench a few times this season. So they are indicators the club see him as being ahead at the moment.

 

[Bullet]

Yesterday England U19s played Montenegro. Phillips played whilst Dorrington was on the bench. I don't know more than
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=england+u19+montenegro+11oct&aq=f&oq=england+u19+montenegro+11oct

 

[braineclipse]

Hojbjerg coming in putting in a really useful performance. That's with Maddison in the team, but arguably two of our best midfield three missing (Bissouma and Bentancur).

Not many teams that have a better backup striker than Richarlison.

We struggled a bit against Fulham after all the subs. But that was with arguably only one first choice player in the midfield 3 and front three combined (Kulusevski). As well as Udogie coming off. And several players in that just returning from injuries.

I think our squad is a bit stronger than some make out. Big question marks over centre backs and if Lo Celso, Gil or someone can prove themselves an adequate backup for Maddison. Other than that. Emerson, Davies, Hojbjerg, Sarr (/Bentancur) and Skipp. Three of Johnson, Richarlison, Solomon and Gil for the front three.

Not a lot of teams that have better squad cover than that. Some do, and we need to improve. But strengthen 2-3 positions and that looks pretty good imo.

Heard on the view from the lane that we could be in trouble if we miss 2-3 of our starters. Imo we've been without one starter in Bentancur all season so far. Coped well without him and Bissouma against Fulham. Several injuries at left wing simultaneously.

 

[Raziel]

Hojbjerg coming in putting in a really useful performance. That's with Maddison in the team, but arguably two of our best midfield three missing (Bissouma and Bentancur).

Not many teams that have a better backup striker than Richarlison.

We struggled a bit against Fulham after all the subs. But that was with arguably only one first choice player in the midfield 3 and front three combined (Kulusevski). As well as Udogie coming off. And several players in that just returning from injuries.

I think our squad is a bit stronger than some make out. Big question marks over centre backs and if Lo Celso, Gil or someone can prove themselves an adequate backup for Maddison. Other than that. Emerson, Davies, Hojbjerg, Sarr (/Bentancur) and Skipp. Three of Johnson, Richarlison, Solomon and Gil for the front three.

Not a lot of teams that have better squad cover than that. Some do, and we need to improve. But strengthen 2-3 positions and that looks pretty good imo.

Heard on the view from the lane that we could be in trouble if we miss 2-3 of our starters. Imo we've been without one starter in Bentancur all season so far. Coped well without him and Bissouma against Fulham. Several injuries at left wing simultaneously.

It's a hard conversation with nuance

- Every team will suffer with the loss of key players (Haaland, KDB at City, Saliba, Saka at Scum, etc.), so depth is a problem that can't be solved
- However we have 2-3 areas where the backup is extremely thin (LB, CB)
- Bentancur is the guy who was the only reason our midfield functioned at all in past 18 months, he will be a huge difference

The challenge is can we avoid the past mistakes

- i.e. Sanchez, Dier, Ndombele, Lucas, Tanganga, Sessegnon, Winks, Rodon, etc. simply overstayed, didn't develop into what was need, yet didn't move on.

So we now have Johnson, Veliz, Solomon, Skipp, Richi, Lo Celso and probably 3 of Academy that we need to evaluate, develop, pick/stick with some, move on the others in a much quicker model than we did in the past.

 

[braineclipse]

It's a hard conversation with nuance

- Every team will suffer with the loss of key players (Haaland, KDB at City, Saliba, Saka at Scum, etc.), so depth is a problem that can't be solved
- However we have 2-3 areas where the backup is extremely thin (LB, CB)
- Bentancur is the guy who was the only reason our midfield functioned at all in past 18 months, he will be a huge difference

The challenge is can we avoid the past mistakes

- i.e. Sanchez, Dier, Ndombele, Lucas, Tanganga, Sessegnon, Winks, Rodon, etc. simply overstayed, didn't develop into what was need, yet didn't move on.

So we now have Johnson, Veliz, Solomon, Skipp, Richi, Lo Celso and probably 3 of Academy that we need to evaluate, develop, pick/stick with some, move on the others in a much quicker model than we did in the past.

Personally I'm quite happy with Davies as backup at LB. I think the inverted role suits him quite well. He's been a regular starter for us when we've been a top 4/european place challenger at the very least. Think he would start for most teams in the PL. He's obviously not close to Udogie, but as far as a backup goes I think he's quite good. Certainly not an area where we're extremely thin for me.

Moving players on is a big thing for sure. Should have some real answers by next summer at the latest and act accordingly. I also hope our recruitment remains good. For the starting 11 and squad. Particularly expensive signings of players that don't fit into the system is such a costly mistake. Obviously less of a problem if the fee is low, but even then it's a significant problem. I think that problem gets understated if the fee is low.

 

[Raziel]

Personally I'm quite happy with Davies as backup at LB. I think the inverted role suits him quite well. He's been a regular starter for us when we've been a top 4/european place challenger at the very least. Think he would start for most teams in the PL. He's obviously not close to Udogie, but as far as a backup goes I think he's quite good. Certainly not an area where we're extremely thin for me.

Moving players on is a big thing for sure. Should have some real answers by next summer at the latest and act accordingly. I also hope our recruitment remains good. For the starting 11 and squad. Particularly expensive signings of players that don't fit into the system is such a costly mistake. Obviously less of a problem if the fee is low, but even then it's a significant problem. I think that problem gets understated if the fee is low.

I would have agreed with you last season, I don't this

Bissouma -> PEH is a drop off but manageable
Bentancur (in my expected starters) -> Sarr is fine
Sarr -> Skipp, just not good enough
Udogie -> Davies, same
Romero/VDV -> Dier, same, rather risk Ashley (at least there is upside)

Ange gets a lot of credit (rightly) but the players are a level up as well, the Sanchez, Dier, Davies, Skipp, Lucas, etc simply aren't good enough, not even for hold on in a pinch

 

[braineclipse]

I would have agreed with you last season, I don't this

Bissouma -> PEH is a drop off but manageable
Bentancur (in my expected starters) -> Sarr is fine
Sarr -> Skipp, just not good enough
Udogie -> Davies, same
Romero/VDV -> Dier, same, rather risk Ashley (at least there is upside)

Ange gets a lot of credit (rightly) but the players are a level up as well, the Sanchez, Dier, Davies, Skipp, Lucas, etc simply aren't good enough, not even for hold on in a pinch

Skipp currently isn't the backup player, he's the one behind the backup player. For that I think he's fine.

Davies has done well this season when called upon. Repeatedly so. Significantly better than Emerson was there against Fulham imo. For me far from a priority at this point, though perhaps come the summer if we have CL football and he doesn't impress for the rest of the season.

Centre back I agree. We're yet to see what Dier will actually look like in this team, this setup. But I have my concerns, as most do. And I think a new CB option should be high up the list come January, probably at the top of that list.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I wouldn't write Skipp off for another year. I'd put him in the same bracket as Gil and Solomon - that it could go either way for them, but they have the raw materials that Postecoglou could polish them into an important cog for the following couple of seasons.

Davies is obviously 30 and we know what he is, but the others are still in that 22-24 age bracket.

 

[braineclipse]

I wouldn't write Skipp off for another year. I'd put him in the same bracket as Gil and Solomon - that it could go either way for them, but they have the raw materials that Postecoglou could polish them into an important cog for the following couple of seasons.

Davies is obviously 30 and we know what he is, but the others are still in that 22-24 age bracket.

I agree with some patience on Skipp and I think most do. He's still young and has a lot about him to like. Was talking about his role in the squad right now.

I do think that he may be a somewhat poor fit for this system. Doesn't quite have the pace/quickness that I think is sometimes really important in this system in midfield. Less press resistant and not a great progressive passer or dribbler. That's a few too many important characteristics missing for me to be really optimistic about where he'll be in a year.

He's been rightly surpassed by Sarr this season. That's also not a great sign for his development as he'll struggle for games unless there's an injury crisis. And to be polished into a more suitable player for the system he probably needs a bit of game time.

I do like him though. Think he could do really rather well in a different system.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I think he's our best defensively of all our CM. So I think there's a possible scenario (hanging onto a lead) that we'd perhaps use him alongside Bissouma in the pivot.

With Bentancur coming back, I think there's an opportunity for him to take over Hojbjerg's squad role (i.e. not replace Hojbjerg when he goes in the next window or two)