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Squad not good enough...or unable to play a different style?

I think the problem was exacerbated by the combination of poch and levy. poch wanted obedient simple minded players and levy wanted bargain not-cnuts. resulted in the nicest, softest team possible without no street smarts but happy to huff and puff.

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I thought 433 at the time but on reflection I've started to think maybe the intention was for the dreaded diamond with Ndombele and Lo Celso set to be either side of the diamond and Fernandes/Dybala as the intended point of said diamond. [emoji848]


Edit:

Haha just saw your post saying pretty much the same thing. [emoji28] @Finney Is Back
There's nothing wrong with the diamond. It is in fact a very good, adaptable formation, that often leaves you outnumbering the opposition in the key areas. It does need a fair amount of coaching to perfect though as the diamond needs to kind of rotate in tandem.
 
There's nothing wrong with the diamond. It is in fact a very good, adaptable formation, that often leaves you outnumbering the opposition in the key areas. It does need a fair amount of coaching to perfect though as the diamond needs to kind of rotate in tandem.

yeah, just look at how well England used it with the "golden generation", wait what...



(only joking, I agree with you on the diamond)
 
Yes agreed, I just don’t think Aurier is the answer and I don’t trust him. Along with most of the other “established” defenders, which was my original point, with the exception of Regs...who isn’t even ours.
Hojbjerg has made three bad mistakes in the last two games. That is more than Aurier this season. That doesn't mean that Hojbjerg isn't the answer.

I'd be replacing 5 players in the Spurs first team and about 8 in the squad before I bothered trying to upgrade the first choice right back.

Who do you propose we go out and upgrade Aurier with by the way?
 
Hojbjerg has made three bad mistakes in the last two games. That is more than Aurier this season. I'd be replacing 5 players in the Spurs first team and about 8 in the squad before I bothered trying to upgrade the first choice right back.

Who do you propose we go out and upgrade Aurier with by the way?
and more the question, how are we paying? With shirt buttons?
 
There's nothing wrong with the diamond. It is in fact a very good, adaptable formation, that often leaves you outnumbering the opposition in the key areas. It does need a fair amount of coaching to perfect though as the diamond needs to kind of rotate in tandem.
Oh I only said "dreaded diamond" because I remembered how derided it was by the fan base at the time. Obviously the issue was we didn't have the players for the system. With the additions we did make and attempted to make the shape may well have been more successful.
 
Poch was trying to turn us into a team that played the midfield diamond I believe. That formation is a good counter to the 4-3-3 that is quite in vogue for the top teams. I think Ndombele and Lo Celso were brought into play on the right and left of that. I think he wanted Bruno Fernandes to play at the tip of it. I think Sessegnon was to be phased in as Rose's replacement as an attacking left back. My guess is that Pochettino thought that Dier could play at the base of the diamond, I think he would've realised that he needed a better player here and upgraded in the next window (Levy permitting).
Yeah maybe
 
Aurier is the least of our problems at this time, priority ( imo) is a keeper to replace Lloris and another CB. Once we have done that we can see what is left in the kitty and go from there.
I agree
Players who take charge from the back made a huge difference to pool
 
I agree
Players who take charge from the back made a huge difference to pool

I agree, and its why we look so open when we are attacked there is no real organization in the back four, i know some fans will say that is down to JOSE but a lot of it is caused by our players not trusting each other as they know that they make so many mistakes.
 
Aurier is the least of our problems at this time, priority ( imo) is a keeper to replace Lloris and another CB. Once we have done that we can see what is left in the kitty and go from there.
Which centre back are you keeping in there to play alongside the new one mate? Genuinely interested.
 
Hojbjerg has made three bad mistakes in the last two games. That is more than Aurier this season. That doesn't mean that Hojbjerg isn't the answer.

I'd be replacing 5 players in the Spurs first team and about 8 in the squad before I bothered trying to upgrade the first choice right back.

Who do you propose we go out and upgrade Aurier with by the way?

Andros Townsend
 
I don't really get why people love Levy so much. He is an OK chairman I think. Has made some good decisions and some poor decisions.

I think he is perfect for us, not perfect, but perfect for us.
He has the long term interests of the club heart, takes care to keep the traditions and ethos of the club and fanbase alive and is generally on the right side of things.
 
Aurier is the least of our problems at this time, priority ( imo) is a keeper to replace Lloris and another CB. Once we have done that we can see what is left in the kitty and go from there.
Most of what we have should go into a new keeper and 2 CBs. This idea that we are going to replace 6 or 7 players in the summer is ridiculous.
Getting a top-quality keeper that the defence have faith in and 2 CBs that can organise the defence and we will immediately be a much stronger team.
Spreading the money we do have around several players, as many have suggested, is just going to mean we get in players similar to what we have now. Spend it on the keeper and CBs
and then if we spot some good value for money or players that we believe have potential get them in.

Keeper: New Keeper and Lloris
RB: Aurier and Doherty
CB: Tanganga, Rodon and 2 new CBs
LB: Reg and Sessegnon
I'd keep Dier for his ability to play a number of positions in defence and cover DM if injuries hit and sell Toby, Sanchez and Davies.
Depending on the quality we get in that could be a good defence for a few years.
 
I don't really get why people love Levy so much. He is an OK chairman I think. Has made some good decisions and some poor decisions.
Because in general, he has improved the club in every area, great stadium and now has now got us to a place that we are close to competing financially with the biggest clubs.
Pretty obvious I would've thought.
 
Most of what we have should go into a new keeper and 2 CBs. This idea that we are going to replace 6 or 7 players in the summer is ridiculous.
Getting a top-quality keeper that the defence have faith in and 2 CBs that can organise the defence and we will immediately be a much stronger team.
Spreading the money we do have around several players, as many have suggested, is just going to mean we get in players similar to what we have now. Spend it on the keeper and CBs
and then if we spot some good value for money or players that we believe have potential get them in.

Keeper: New Keeper and Lloris
RB: Aurier and Doherty
CB: Tanganga, Rodon and 2 new CBs
LB: Reg and Sessegnon
I'd keep Dier for his ability to play a number of positions in defence and cover DM if injuries hit and sell Toby, Sanchez and Davies.
Depending on the quality we get in that could be a good defence for a few years.

I can't dance with any of that, i would keep Dier as well as i believe he could still be a back up in CM which i believe is his best position still.
 
This idea that we are going to replace 6 or 7 players in the summer is ridiculous.

This is why we need a mid/long term plan. Over the next say 2-3 years, I think we'll need to sign something like 2 keepers, 2 CBs, a CM to replace Sissoko, replacements for Moura and Lamela and a CF.

Thats 8 players. They're not all first choice players obviously, but its 8 players, and before considering anyone who leaves or doesnt fit the bill any more. Some are higher priority than others

Total cost? Assuming we sign players in our historical sweet-spot (22-25 year olds), £200m or a bit over say? But I think the club (Levy) needs to look at this summer as the start of that re-build for the next 3 summer windows and 2 winter windows. It might mean that we dont quality for the CL this season or the two following seasons but thats the price we pay for the squad stagnating for a period

It might sound a long way into the future but planning to challenge in 2023-4 is probably realistic. I think its far more realistic that thinking we'll be able to sign more 'finished product' players in the 25-28 age range given their prices will be double and we have too many gaps
 
..I was thinking about this recently. Our squad is being shown up for its horrendous weaknesses right now, and there are many that are utterly undeniable.
  • Davinson Sanchez is close to the worst, most utterly brainless, heartless and gutless center-back I have seen in two decades watching this club. I'm starting to loathe seeing him on the team sheet for how utterly guaranteed it is that he'll look like the miserably hapless fool he is.
  • Davies is miserably average, and gets sat on his arse by League Two players.
  • Sissoko...Christ.
  • Winks....Christ.
  • Lucas...his head knows what to do, his legs simply cannot execute them.
We also have a shedload of rapidly declining players, from Lloris to Toby to Dier, who look relegation level. No doubt.

But...thinking about it, there are two common threads that run through this team.

  1. The inability to think for themselves - in terms of football and off-field intelligence, these players are among the poorest in the Premier League.
  2. The inability to pass a football or to retain possession when pressed, *at all* - again, they are probably the poorest in the league at that.
I've been wondering why that is. And I think I know the answer.

For six years, we have followed a squad building strategy that prioritizes finding the players to play one way, and one way only. That is, extremely high-intensity, high press, *very* quick football.

The sort of gegenpress Poch employed means you have to be constantly pressing high up the field, and when the opponent makes a mistake, you have to get the ball into the danger zone with one touch or one pass. However, it also means you have a lot of space to make what are relatively simple passes to execute, because you catch the opposition high up and they aren' t in a defensive shape, meaning passes are easy to make.

The best part is, this system doesn' t really need you to think, or be technically skilled. For a baseline level of results and regularly good performances, all it needs is enough stamina, speed and strength to press, and a relatively limited tactical intelligence to play the quick pass when possession is turned over and follow pressing traps/instructions otherwise.

Now, this system will generally fail when up against opponents that give you the ball (ie, sit deep), because you can't play into spaces. And thus play becomes very laboured. You can avoid that by having players who are both supremely fit and also technically brilliant to play intricately when faced with a low block, but those players are very expensive.

And that is our problem today.

Under Poch, we built a side very suited to gegenpressing, that worked even better at WHL because it was a small pitch, easy to cover ground - in fact, it astonished me that we had turned a weakness in the Harry years (WHL small = no space to play or break down smaller sides) into a strength. We didn't need players to think or be good technical players - we only needed them to be the fittest in the league, and they were. It worked against the majority of sides, but we lost in the big games against sides able to play our press or able to sit deep and counter us. To overcome that final hurdle, we needed players that were technical, intelligent *and* fit.

But Levy cheaped out, again and again and again, on buying players in that top category that could fit that description. It's not that we didn't try - the fact that Liverpool and us both went for the same players again and again is proof that we recognised this need. But they outspent Levy, and they got the players we needed. And we got their second-rate replacements - brainless players who could run, but not really play or be intelligent. Sissoko instead of Wijnaldum. N'Jie and N'Koudou over Mane. Aurier when we needed to replace Walker. And so on.

And we saw the consequences of that - as we saw, we declined as we moved to a bigger pitch meaning our press was less effective, good players left or declined and were replaced with crap, and simple mental and physical fatigue meant our fitness levels plummeted.

And today we have this squad - which I'm afraid tocsay, can only play one way. It is the most tactically macaronic side in the league, and probsbly one of the least technical. And this, sadly, is true of *all* our players, even comparatively better ones like Son and Dele - they were built for a style which minimises their weaknesses.

To wrap up, Mourinho is a terrible dinosaur and he should leave. But I have no illusions that this squad will achieve anything after him, because it is solely built play one style. It cannot sit deep because it lacks intelligence and is error prone - it cannot play attacking, possession football because it is too technically limited to withstand the ubiquitous press nowadays. It can't even return to gegenpressing because our pitch now is gigantic and these players no longer have the fitnes for it. All it can do is play the sort of football we saw at the end with Poch - wild, aimless attacking that bypasses midfield, almost rush football.

And this will not change for years, Mourinho or not, until we buy a new set of better, more, more intelligent technical players. Mourinho is a problem, but this squad is the bigger problem.


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Just to add that yes we could get rid of Jose as a lot are saying but would any manager do any better with this shower?

Pluses are that both Rodon and Tanganga are still young and show promise
 
I can't dance with any of that, i would keep Dier as well as i believe he could still be a back up in CM which i believe is his best position still.


I agree that CB is Dier’s best position

But still not good enough and Champo at best
 
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