***Spurs v spammers***

[thfcsteff]

This word ‘transition’ is doing a lot of heavily lifting.

What exactly are we transitioning to? All I see is us transitioning from a decent attacking team to a turgid, low quality defensive team. That’s over the last 2-3 years.

We conceded in the 72nd minute today. We then brought on the closest thing we have to a forward replacement in the 90th minute. There isn’t another team in the league that would do that. Have a lol at our chances on gaol after they scored - where was the onslaught?

Lots of talk of having the 2nd lowest shots in the league. We have 2 players that are capable of putting the ball in the net. Most teams have 4 or more. It’s not rocket science. I’m not a Nuno fan, and I don’t like the tactics - but when he was asked about this Tottenham DNA this week he said you can only do what you can with the players you have. It’s not difficult to see he’s surely referring to a threadbare squad thats been left well short.

For me, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. We have good players but the manager's system/ethos does not bring out the best in them; like the previous.

This all comes down to Paratici really. We either have to complete the transition and stick with this style of manager (whether Nuno or not - I think Nuno is a plug-in myself) or he has to concede that we require a manager with better positive qualities and hang on/in until that person becomes available. Ultimately, it will be Levy I suppose as he is Paratici's boss, but as it stands, our DoF has to make big big decisions.

For the record, I feel for Nuno despite what he didn't do today. He took a job he wasn't especially wanted for. He is also not the right manager for us. He will always have my huge respect for how he steadied our ship after the disastrous months between late April and his arrival. But we have to get the next appt right, and give them several years. I mean, the man got a two year contract!!! What does that tell him?

 

[metalgear]

Our footballing matters in general and at the highest level is in transition. Paratici played a big part in Nuno's selection and consequently the way we set up. Levy plays the long game so this might get a lot worse and a lot longer before we see progress. I've been a fan for decades now I am starting to doubt that I can see Spurs win the league in my lifetime. Hopefully this forum will still be around when I am old and bitter so I can vent.

 

[Spoonman]

I’ve just read on here that we have the 5th best squad though so clearly someone is wrong

Good lord, I'm in shock.

I said before a ball was kicked this season that we have a mid-table squad plus Kane and Son. I have now revised that to a mid-table squad plus Son.

Joking aside, I do think Romero and Skipp have improved us defensively, it's going the other way which is now the massive problem.

 

[Benny_Lad]

For me, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. We have good players but the manager's system/ethos does not bring out the best in them; like the previous.

This all comes down to Paratici really. We either have to complete the transition and stick with this style of manager (whether Nuno or not - I think Nuno is a plug-in myself) or he has to concede that we require a manager with better positive qualities and hang on/in until that person becomes available. Ultimately, it will be Levy I suppose as he is Paratici's boss, but as it stands, our DoF has to make big big decisions.

For the record, I feel for Nuno despite what he didn't do today. He took a job he wasn't especially wanted for. He is also not the right manager for us. He will always have my huge respect for how he steadied our ship after the disastrous months between late April and his arrival. But we have to get the next appt right, and give them several years. I mean, the man got a two year contract!!! What does that tell him?

I think by giving the 2 years it’s pretty clear that Levy/Paratici wanted a get out of jail card, and in my opinion it’s likely a plan to get Poch back in once available.

 

[Pirate55]

There's more in the squad that we're seeing. For us to have had the fewest shots this season in the PL, bar Norwich, doesnt fit with the quality of players

question is how low we drop in the league and whether Nuno gets the full season

Poch Mark 2, Mason, Mourinho and now Nuno couldn't get a tune out of these players.

 

[glasgowspur]

Poch Mark 2, Mason, Mourinho and now Nuno couldn't get a tune out of these players.

That's the conundrum isn't it.
Whats changed and where since we were that slick well oiled machine under poch mk 1?

 

[SouthStand322]

That's the conundrum isn't it.
Whats changed and where since we were that slick well oiled machine under poch mk 1?

Almost the entire team. The whole back 4, the centre midfield, the creative spark, the star striker is still here but he might as well not be! The recruitment has on the whole been dreadful

 

[glasgowspur]

Almost the entire team. The whole back 4, the centre midfield, the creative spark, the star striker is still here but he might as well not be! The recruitment has on the whole been dreadful

But it started when they were all still here.
Its not imho one thing, there is loads of reasons for it.

 

[Pirate55]

That's the conundrum isn't it.
Whats changed and where since we were that slick well oiled machine under poch mk 1?

In my view, Poch Mark 1 came to us with the right ideas, the right plan and correct arduous training regime which suited our young hungry squad at that time.

Walker, Rose, Dier, Dele, Eriksen, Kane, Ali and Son (even to a lesser extent Benteleb, Mason and Townsend) were all young eager and hungry - and willing to be moulded into a well drilled outfit with pace and energy. Everything came into alignment at the same time. As well as being fortunate with the defensive pairing of Toby and Jan, a fantastic goalkeeper and a once in a generation genius like Dembele.

Credit to Poch for moulding the talent into a formidable team.

However, the difference between then and now - is that at that time we had the RIGHT players (ie just about the best in each of their individual positions). Today we simply don't.

 

[fernadez]

In my view, Poch Mark 1 came to us with the right ideas, the right plan and correct arduous training regime which suited our young hungry squad at that time.

Walker, Rose, Dier, Dele, Eriksen, Kane, Ali and Son (even to a lesser extent Benteleb, Mason and Townsend) were all young eager and hungry - and willing to be moulded into a well drilled outfit with pace and energy. Everything came into alignment at the same time. As well as being fortunate with the defensive pairing of Toby and Jan, a fantastic goalkeeper and a once in a generation genius like Dembele.

Credit to Poch for moulding the talent into a formidable team.

However, the difference between then and now - is that at that time we had the RIGHT players (ie just about the best in each of their individual positions). Today we simply don't.

It raises an interesting question. I'm a big fan of Poch, but how much of our downturn was in line with those players downturn (for various reasons) which would have happened regardless who the manager was, would another manager have achieved as much as Poch did with that same group of players or would have Klopp/Tuchel has got more out of them. I mean would he have been able to rebuild something like that again or was a big part of the success of that team the recruitment that went into getting that group of players together. If things follow the course, it looks like he'll be back soon and that question will be answered.

 

[Pirate55]

It raises an interesting question. I'm a big fan of Poch, but how much of our downturn was in line with those players downturn (for various reasons) which would have happened regardless who the manager was, would another manager have achieved as much as Poch did with that same group of players or would have Klopp/Tuchel has got more out of them. I mean would he have been able to rebuild something like that again or was a big part of the success of that team the recruitment that went into getting that group of players together. If things follow the course, it looks like he'll be back soon and that question will be answered.

It would indeed be really interesting. Would he be able to recreate the magic with a different set of players? I have my doubts.

I blamed Poch for a lot of our poor recruitment ( and non recruitment for that matter!). Were the duff players we bought down to him? We will never really know the true story. His last transfer window of NDombele, LoCelso, Sessegnon and Clarke sums it all up for me.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Our footballing matters in general and at the highest level is in transition. Paratici played a big part in Nuno's selection and consequently the way we set up. Levy plays the long game so this might get a lot worse and a lot longer before we see progress. I've been a fan for decades now I am starting to doubt that I can see Spurs win the league in my lifetime. Hopefully this forum will still be around when I am old and bitter so I can vent.

For all we know Paratici may have picked a manager who was similar to Mourinho with his tactics to try to ensure we had a bit of continuity. Lurching from one type of manager to the opposite can result in players who have been brought in becoming expensive wastes of money.

I think Paratici did really well in terms of player recruitment this summer, especially as he had to operate with a low (£30m net) budget as well as having to slash the wage bill. I think without him (or a similarly experienced DoF) we would've been in serious trouble operating within those parameters.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

For all we know Paratici may have picked a manager who was similar to Mourinho with his tactics to try to ensure we had a bit of continuity. Lurching from one type of manager to the opposite can result in players who have been brought in becoming expensive wastes of money.

I think Paratici did really well in terms of player recruitment this summer, especially as he had to operate with a low (£30m net) budget as well as having to slash the wage bill. I think without him (or a similarly experienced DoF) we would've been in serious trouble operating within those parameters.

I think it’s kinda that
A transition from dross to something better and bedding in younger players

 

[Bishop]

It raises an interesting question. I'm a big fan of Poch, but how much of our downturn was in line with those players downturn (for various reasons) which would have happened regardless who the manager was, would another manager have achieved as much as Poch did with that same group of players or would have Klopp/Tuchel has got more out of them. I mean would he have been able to rebuild something like that again or was a big part of the success of that team the recruitment that went into getting that group of players together. If things follow the course, it looks like he'll be back soon and that question will be answered.

Klopp is a better coach so likely would have achieved more. Tuchel I'm not so sure. The evidence suggests he might be but he's also always had better squads than Poch and has had some indifferent periods.

So I'm not so sure that our downturn would have played out the same way. Under Klopp I'm very certain we would have had a different set of results. He's never been scared to change things up even when already successful. He would have done the same here. So unless we are saying that there were external factors that constrained Poch from refreshing the side that would have also affected Klopp things would have undoubtedly been different.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Klopp is a better coach so likely would have achieved more. Tuchel I'm not so sure. The evidence suggests he might be but he's also always had better squads than Poch and has had some indifferent periods.

So I'm not so sure that our downturn would have played out the same way. Under Klopp I'm very certain we would have had a different set of results. He's never been scared to change things up even when already successful. He would have done the same here. So unless we are saying that there were external factors that constrained Poch from refreshing the side that would have also affected Klopp things would have undoubtedly been different.

Klopp doesn’t do the coaching (he may well be a coach)
He has some great coaches that work with him and bring him the ideas (some great articles on it online). One is Pepijn Linders and he was the guy who brought the flying full back plan to him when he returned from a failed spell in management
Tuchel is one of the coaches from what I’ve read. He fixed that Chelsea back line in 1 week

 

[Bishop]

Klopp doesn’t do the coaching (he may well be a coach)
He has some great coaches that work with him and bring him the ideas (some great articles on it online). One is Pepijn Linders and he was the guy who brought the flying full back plan to him when he returned from a failed spell in management
Tuchel is one of the coaches from what I’ve read. He fixed that Chelsea back line in 1 week

I suppose I wasn't being specific with using the term such as coach. More the end result, whether that is using coaches or doing it themselves. Fergie was a great example of this. He himself wasn't the best coach, but he knew what weaknesses he had and he could see what others could add to his overall product. Klopp sounds like he's made from that same mould in that respect.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I suppose I wasn't being specific with using the term such as coach. More the end result, whether that is using coaches or doing it themselves. Fergie was a great example of this. He himself wasn't the best coach, but he knew what weaknesses he had and he could see what others could add to his overall product. Klopp sounds like he's made from that same mould in that respect.

Fergie mastered the art of new ideas
Klopp does that well too
Pep too
Reinvent the team and change the system with new ideas, and new coaches
It where Poch went wrong. Same message to the same players from the same coaches

 

[glasgowspur]

Fergie mastered the art of new ideas
Klopp does that well too
Pep too
Reinvent the team and change the system with new ideas, and new coaches
It where Poch went wrong. Same message to the same players from the same coaches

Not sure thats a fair criticism, some of the players he wanted gone/was prepared to replace we could not get rid of.
Look at Eriksen and toby.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Not sure thats a fair criticism, some of the players he wanted gone/was prepared to replace we could not get rid of.
Look at Eriksen and toby.

Poch went to meet eriksen to persuade him to stay in Denmark. I don’t think he wanted him gone
Toby was not wanted by anyone else even at his bargain release fee. Again I’m not sure Poch wanted him out

 

[thfcsteff]

Poch went to meet eriksen to persuade him to stay in Denmark. I don’t think he wanted him gone
Toby was not wanted by anyone else even at his bargain release fee. Again I’m not sure Poch wanted him out

Once he knew Eriksen would not re-sign, he was OK with selling. Toby? He wanted him sold after the injury/bust-up.