Southern Rail

[Gilzeantoscore]

Far from it.

I was one of the first to say that banks had to be allowed to fail. That's the only way you'll get them to behave responsibly.

The way they're still doing the same old thing, with complete impunity is precisely why safety nets are bad.

If you genuinely think that cuts in corporation and capital gains tax end up in the Cayman Isles them you're just fighting a straw man - no wonder you have such a skewed view of the world.

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Yeah Scara, you'd want the bank that held your life savings to fail. Seriously? This sort of post explains why I often take you views with a pinch of salt. It's second form debating semantics stuff.

 

[scaramanga]

Yeah Scara, you'd want the bank that held your life savings to fail. Seriously? This sort of post explains why I often take you views with a pinch of salt. It's second form debating semantics stuff.

I wouldn't be stupid enough to put my life's savings in a bank.

I might lose a few £k from it, but not my life's savings.

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[glorygloryeze]

I always go out of my way to avoid having to use a train. They are inconvenient, expensive, late, dirty, common, public, aggravating.

But I want a better train service as it keeps people away from the traffic jams on the roads I want to use.

Hopefully they can do away with all staff and automate everything - I heard that the reason so few trains run is that one train can't enter a "section of track" until the previous train has departed the same section. That is like only allowing 1 car per mile of road. Incredible. One day they will automate things and stack train after train on the one section of track. It's just a matter of time.

We used to employ people to take away our dung before the invention of sewers and the flushing toilet.

Why does @scaramanga post using two accounts?

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Was in the times today that the southern train drivers get £42,000 a year for a 4 day week and if they decide to do a 5 day week they get £56,000 not sure how or where they got their numbers from. Seems pretty high to drive a chutty train.

 

[scaramanga]

Was in the times today that the southern train drivers get £42,000 a year for a 4 day week and if they decide to do a 5 day week they get £56,000 not sure how or where they got their numbers from. Seems pretty high to drive a chutty train.

Sounds accurate to me. I know a train driver (not Southern) who earns a little more than that.

He also gets a free loft home at the end of any shift. If that train is late he gets double time overtime for waiting for it - even if it's a drivers strike that's caused it to be late!

 

[markysimmo]

Like the tube drivers £56k starting salary after 6 months training and yet they still fudging moan about everything

 

[scaramanga]

Like the tube drivers £56k starting salary after 6 months training and yet they still fudging moan about everything

Anyone who says unions don't skew wages entirely out of proportion needs only to look at that figure.

£56k for an unskilled, uneducated employee, with no managerial responsibility and a small amount of training.

It took me years to earn £56k, years of hard slog, despite out qualifying a tube driver in every regard. I suspect that's the same for most here too.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Anyone who says unions don't skew wages entirely out of proportion needs only to look at that figure.

£56k for an unskilled, uneducated employee, with no managerial responsibility and a small amount of training.

It took me years to earn £56k, years of hard slog, despite out qualifying a tube driver in every regard. I suspect that's the same for most here too.

You chose the wrong career then, didn't you. Anyway it's a free market! What are you complaining about. There are no limits placed on profits, so why limit wages?

 

[scaramanga]

You chose the wrong career then, didn't you. Anyway it's a free market! What are you complaining about. There are no limits placed on profits, so why limit wages?

It may not seem like it, but I do have morals. I'd never become a union member, no matter how many zeros it added to my salary. *

As you well know, free markets have nothing to do with this. In a free market there is no need at all to limit wages as people will get paid for their worth. This is the opposite - a closed shop kept powerful by bullying and intimidation in order to increase wages way past their real value.

*Disclaimer: I am a member of both the IoD and CIMA, both of which could be construed as inactive unions. I would leave both immediately if either ever even contemplated strike action.

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[r-u-s-x]

Anyone who says unions don't skew wages entirely out of proportion needs only to look at that figure.

£56k for an unskilled, uneducated employee, with no managerial responsibility and a small amount of training.

It took me years to earn £56k, years of hard slog, despite out qualifying a tube driver in every regard. I suspect that's the same for most here too.

A broker with little or no qualifications or skills other than giving the best kickbacks /jolly ups could earn many times more than that (not anymore but not long ago). Were you as against this?

 

[scaramanga]

A broker with little or no qualifications or skills other than giving the best kickbacks /jolly ups could earn many times more than that (not anymore but not long ago). Were you as against this?

There's a lot of skill in selling, not many can do that. There's also a good bit of subterfuge and bluff involved in succeeding in that role.

It's a bit like saying anyone could make a fortune playing poker - theoretically they could but few can or do in reality.

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[r-u-s-x01]

There's a lot of skill in selling, not many can do that. There's also a good bit of subterfuge and bluff involved in succeeding in that role.

It's a bit like saying anyone could make a fortune playing poker - theoretically they could but few can or do in reality.

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When best execution rules came in most of the wide boys lost their jobs, were not good at sales they were good at kickbacks. Either way low training and low skills

 

[scaramanga]

When best execution rules came in most of the wide boys lost their jobs, were not good at sales they were good at kickbacks. Either way low training and low skills

You mean to tell me no unions stood up and forced businesses to keep employing them? Disgraceful!

 

[r-u-s-x01]

You mean to tell me no unions stood up and forced businesses to keep employing them? Disgraceful!

You mean to tell me that the market wasn't perfect for 30 odd years and did not remove crap employees who were gaming the system and making it inefficient

 

[scaramanga]

You mean to tell me that the market wasn't perfect for 30 odd years and did not remove crap employees who were gaming the system and making it inefficient

I don't think I've ever claimed that markets fix all problems overnight.

Has anyone actually measured the difference made to investors with best execution? I only ask because it can't have been much of a problem to the market - investors made money before and they still do now. I'm guessing the overall market difference would be in the fractions of a %

 

[r-u-s-x01]

I don't think I've ever claimed that markets fix all problems overnight.

Has anyone actually measured the difference made to investors with best execution? I only ask because it can't have been much of a problem to the market - investors made money before and they still do now. I'm guessing the overall market difference would be in the fractions of a %

Yes I believe it was the EU, it was significant . Banks were winning and fund managers were winning, people investing in funds and pensions were getting ripped off. How much do you think a fraction of a percent on every otc transaction would be?

 

[scaramanga]

Yes I believe it was the EU, it was significant . Banks were winning and fund managers were winning, people investing in funds and pensions were getting ripped off. How much do you think a fraction of a percent on every otc transaction would be?

I get that overall the £ (or €) figure would be huge, but the effect on the market must have been pretty small which is why it wasn't corrected quickly. Markets are pretty good at prioritisation - they can focus on the biggest issues pretty quickly.

 

[r-u-s-x01]

I get that overall the £ (or €) figure would be huge, but the effect on the market must have been pretty small which is why it wasn't corrected quickly. Markets are pretty good at prioritisation - they can focus on the biggest issues pretty quickly.

Rich people skimming a little off the top is ok? But employing a few extra guards is not, I think I will give up here as I can't understand your world view.

 

[scaramanga]

Rich people skimming a little off the top is ok? But employing a few extra guards is not, I think I will give up here as I can't understand your world view.

Of course not, but markets will tackle problems in terms of priorities.

A problem that effect the price and running of trains as much as unions do would be repaired far quicker than the loss of a fraction of a percent, although both would eventually be fixed.

 

[r-u-s-x01]

Of course not, but markets will tackle problems in terms of priorities.

A problem that effect the price and running of trains as much as unions do would be repaired far quicker than the loss of a fraction of a percent, although both would eventually be fixed.

After decades it had to be regulated out by the EU.

A few hundred thousand a year vs 10's of millions ha! Priorities, have a good night and a happy new year.