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Sick sick world what is wrong with people

Danishfurniturelover said:
Brexit led to Europe turning facist?

Thats a massive stretch, get some did not agree with it and it could have gone better but then the government were crap and constantly upended by their own civil service and courts. But ideally dont think you can blame the UK for what happens in mainland Europe.

We voted to leave a trading block, 52% of us that voted did anyway.
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You are completely right. I live in Austria and the FPÖ, their far right party, have been part of a ruling coalition twice since 2002. Orban has been the PM of Hungary since forever, the Le Pens since I can remember, the Afd in Germany have risen in power since the Migrant Crisis. Russia have "weaponised" Refugees, look at the external EU Polish Belarusian border and with the help of the likes of Farage are destabilising the west.
Brexit can be blamed for a multitude of brick but the rise of the far right in Europe is ridiculous
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
It all began with Thatcher and Reagan breaking the post war consensus and it has been down hill all the way since then.
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It would have happened eventually, whether Thatcher and Reagan had been elected or not. Not absolving them of the destruction they enabled but like Trump they are a conduit rather than the cause.
 
Robspur12 said:
As I said before we should be careful to not to conflate racism and Islamophobia with a genuine concern around immigration numbers. That’s what the far right want people to do. The country needs to deal with the far right scum first, get control back on our streets before it escalates even further with groups of vigilantes taking on the racists. Only then can we engage in a proper discussion around immigration. This is not the time for that discussion nor should it be carried out staring down the barrel of a gun which is a risk at the moment.

On the point of whether or not the “left” have a credible policy, I’m not sure any politician had one because unless you are a Tory the answers, vetting aside, are not straightforward.
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Thats the issue though isn't it and you are right, by taking to the streets and writing "fck pak1s" on the side of a hotel you lose any sense that people want to sit round and have sensible discussion and it only feeds into conflation because those messages and the violence is whats going to grab the headlines. As my old boss said, you wanna be taken serious you act serious.

The shameful thing about this is, you can be worried about Illegal immigration numbers (people too easily just take abroad swipe at all immigration unfairly) but this mindless stuff against other humans is just shameful, who in their right mind travels half way across the country to barricade hotels and try to set them alight its just Mississippi Burning levels of racism, ironically they all bang on about the war and how heroes would be shocked at the immigration whereas I can assure you most veterans I have ever spoke to would be more ashamed of our actions in response to it.

On a separate not, The Muslims have done us Jews and Blacks a favour in the 00s onwards but taking the heat off us from the national front type of abuse that we were subjected to before then, but lets be clear, if it wasn't the Muslims that the far right racist had an issue with, it would be full focus on us again like it was in the 70s, 80s and 90s, anything thats different to them they hate and people like Farage and Robinson just play into that "we hate the same people you do" to garner support. Its pathetic and if I am honest, I am ashamed of a vast number of the people in this country today
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Brexit led to Europe turning facist?

Thats a massive stretch, get some did not agree with it and it could have gone better but then the government were crap and constantly upended by their own civil service and courts. But ideally dont think you can blame the UK for what happens in mainland Europe.

We voted to leave a trading block, 52% of us that voted did anyway.
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Rare that we agree on politics, and especially Brexit, but this is spot on.

These riots are just a different version of Brexit for some (note "some" - not all) as an outlet for frustration. Whether that be an honest frustration about crime, about immigration or about their lives just not being where they want them to be.

Much like many (again, not all) argument for Brexit that fit in with the above, it's "right argument, wrong target".
Capitalism/neo-liberaliam is a big impact.
So was the blinkered argumenting that attempted to shut down poorly educated views for decades.
Followed by the abject corruption of the last 15 years of Tory Govt, and especially post Brexit.
Add an underestimate of the lens through which people now views their lives (Facebook, X, online clickbait media, etc, instead of The Sun, The Mail, The table at the local over a Carling Black Label).

Brexit was a symptom of the impact of years of the above.

Many EU countries have similar concerns (of varying degrees) but wouldn't dream of destabilising the bloc because they know what it's like to have jackboots on their land, not just in the air.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I was going to write Mosley was part of the establishment a member of parliament. But then so is farage.

In those series of b+w photos Mosley gets dragged to the ground and takes a bit of a kicking. Shame that gets stoped today.

The other curiosity….the facist rally lasted 3 mins before it was stopped and there were 52 arrests made. One of the 52 arrested was Max Mosley his son. This was in 1962. Fast forward a few years and Max Mosley and a Jew form a formidable tag team sewing up Formula One between them and make a killing. The last thing of note: Max gets stung by a tabloid in a romp with prostitutes dressed up as Nazis.
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15 years after the end of WWII - against the backdrop of a continent still rebuilding and reorganizing itself; it makes sense there was little tolerance for such action.

Pre WWII attitudes are probably more closely comparable - and we know what they were in the UK. People living in poverty and Govt appeasement for fascists.
Thankfully we now have a legal technocrat as PM - I think we're going to need it.
 
LutonSpurs said:
These aren't protests. They are violent riots. Protectors humanises these evil scum
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Correct and inflamed by a series of lies peddled last week, giving a Muslim name as the murderer in Southport which mobilised a loads of idiots to go and attack mosques in the north and then again yesterday TR urging people to get to Scotland and let it be known because someone was stabbed "by a Muslim" which turned out to be another lie. So called seekers of the truth online who don't fact check a single thing but use triggers to hit the streets and exercise their bigotry so doubt they want to fact check this stuff anyway.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Correct and inflamed by a series of lies peddled last week, giving a Muslim name as the murderer in Southport which mobilised a loads of idiots to go and attack mosques in the north and then again yesterday TR urging people to get to Scotland and let it be known because someone was stabbed "by a Muslim" which turned out to be another lie. So called seekers of the truth online who don't fact check a single thing but use triggers to hit the streets and exercise their bigotry so doubt they want to fact check this stuff anyway.
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Yaxley-Lennon should be arrested on his return to this country. He’s guilty of incitement to riot.
 
If the country is 'full' as some on these riots claim, could we not run it like a pub on New Year's Eve? 1 in, 1 out? 100 asylum seekers granted leave to remain, 100 people not contributing to society have their leave to remain withdrawn. Start with 100 of those identified as being part of the riots. They couldn't complain as 'the country is full'. Might even get some value out of the Rwanda scheme or use Ascension or Pitcairn!
 
In some communities, the riots have stirred up young Muslims to come out in counter protest. I understand their anger and fear, provocation has been immense but @LutonSpurs if you are in contact please discourage this (I'm sure you are anyway), let the police do their jobs. If people can do so without putting themselves in harms way, film the rioters and pass the footage to the police.
 
richie_spur said:
If the country is 'full' as some on these riots claim, could we not run it like a pub on New Year's Eve? 1 in, 1 out? 100 asylum seekers granted leave to remain, 100 people not contributing to society have their leave to remain withdrawn. Start with 100 of those identified as being part of the riots. They couldn't complain as 'the country is full'. Might even get some value out of the Rwanda scheme or use Ascension or Pitcairn!
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Roackall is nice this time of year.
 
Robspur12 said:
In some communities, the riots have stirred up young Muslims to come out in counter protest. I understand their anger and fear, provocation has been immense but @LutonSpurs if you are in contact please discourage this (I'm sure you are anyway), let the police do their jobs. If people can do so without putting themselves in harms way, film the rioters and pass the footage to the police.
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I think its a point well made and one that gets lost, I don't think it tells the whole story but its def part. You also see in videos local mosque leaders and Muslims trying to stop the protests and call for calm. Thats different from travelling up to Southport on a lie that a Muslim had murdered people (ironically he was Christian not that I actually think the religion matters). Muslims are also not lying about Stabbings in Stirling and asking people to therefore travel up to show displeasure (we know that that means).
 
Looks like those who are being charged with various offences thus far are being remanded in custody until September. No bail. Reckon a lot of people have this big shock awaiting them.
 
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