Sick sick world what is wrong with people

[thfcsteff]

What's stoking this is far right racists posting conspiracy theories and misinformation on line, further to the last government demonizing refugees and not condemning anti Muslim hate. Conflating what's going on now with a failure to get a handle on asylum, I'm afraid is just plain wrong. These thugs are attacking UK Citizens, beating up any ethnic who crosses their path.

This.

 

[Jurgen the German]

It's use of terms like "nations" and "we" that is the problem. They are the constructs we need to dismantle.

I’m going to use an extreme, pie in the sky example. If 50m immigrants came here over the next 12 months, do you really think our infrastructure, health services, housing etc could cope with that demand? Obviously we are not going to get those kinds of numbers coming here no country can take in unlimited numbers of people and pretending it’s not even an issue isn’t going to solve it.

 

[glasgowspur]

Could just sentence them to a year incarcerated in the Holiday Inn in Rotherham. There aren't many worse places in the world.

Hull, ever been to Hull?
It's a desperate place. Still can't believe I got done for speeding on the way out.

 

[thfcsteff]

I don’t have an issue with some who is racist
What I hate is their double standards
if you are racist. Own it
Don’t hide it
Let the whole world know and then we can choose to treat you how we see fit too

I absolutely know the point you're making mate, but must just say that if you or your family had ever been a recipient/victim of it, you'd also have a massive fudging problem with racists who don't hide it.

 

[thfcsteff]

I agree mostly mate. Given the choice I also would prefer immigrants over the scumbags that are ruining our towns and cities as I do believe most immigrants come here because they want a better life and most of them aren’t looking to game the system or rinse our services whilst not contributing. However, there does need to be a far better vetting process regarding the people who come here. And I do also feel that for a lot of people, the left just don’t have a credible stance on immigration. Do I agree with the tories? Not at all, but I don’t feel like anyone has a decent plan for tackling immigration. I’m not just talking about Uber right wing people, I mean just regular people, left or right. It’s an issue all over Europe in liberal countries in Scandinavia and also in America.

Are you including white immigrants in that statement? It's an important question to answer.

 

[Baleforce]

I’m going to use an extreme, pie in the sky example. If 50m immigrants came here over the next 12 months, do you really think our infrastructure, health services, housing etc could cope with that demand? Obviously we are not going to get those kinds of numbers coming here no country can take in unlimited numbers of people and pretending it’s not even an issue isn’t going to solve it.

No.

But its not "here", its not "our", it's resources that should be available to those in need, and if 50m people do relocate to a certain point on the globe in need, its a shared burden to all on this rock.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Are you including white immigrants in that statement? It's an important question to answer.

Yes. I’ve not once mentioned race when it comes to immigration. It makes no difference whether they are American, Rwandan, Swedish, German or Turkish.

 

[Jurgen the German]

No.

But its not "here", its not "our", it's resources that should be available to those in need, and if 50m people do relocate to a certain point on the globe in need, its a shared burden to all on this rock.

In theory I agree but in practice it’s not realistic.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

First off, I took the time to send some very long, detailed and I felt spirit-of-discussion replies to posts from you earlier in the week which you haven't responded to. As is, no worries.

With regards to the above reply, that is not what I said. You've extrapolated something which is not an accurate reflection of what I said (which is basically what happens generally in the world these days in too many situations everywhere).

Here is what I said:

"I mean, never mind the Brexit has basically led to Europe segregating/some nations turning facist and so on"

Much as I don't feel it is my job to do so, I will break down what that statement's meaning actually is. To jme it is very clear, however...

1. Brexit saw a very active EU member disengage from the block
2. Russia (who had absolutely seen the fissures developing in the relationship) were delighted to see the fracture and studiously promoted further separatist ideas within the EU members.
3. EU members increasingly saw that the EU as a body was no longer impregnable from either outside influence or further member disengagement.
4. Countries such as the Netherlands saw right-wing politics take a greater hold than ever in their nations.
5. Italy elected a facist PM (Meloni)
6. Hungary's PM is a facist (Orban)
7. France has undergone tremendous turbulence and political swing


It is a FACT that Brexit has led to a faster segregation/isolation of nations from each other within Europe, and running interference on those lines have been the likes of Russia, Farage and other far-right provocateurs. Sadly, racism is a by-product of all that.

The facts since Brexit will show that nothing in that sentence is a massive stretch at all, and that nowhere did I say 'Europe turned facist' as thankfully, much of Europe continues to resist those massive clams. However for the first time since WWII, there are more racists in charge of more European nations than I can remember.

Finally, you're looking for 'blame'...'not our fault' and that sort of stuff. I am not looking to 'blame' anybody, I am simply stating facts. And if you still don't think that Brexit has had a major, major impact on global politics, then I'd suggest it's a willful action on your part. It is important for me to note that whilst I did not agree with Brexit, my 'blame' for it lies very much with the snake-oil salespeople who 'sold' it.

Must have missed your posts at the start of the week. The are only so many posts a person can read on a subject before getting a tad bored and I have said im no where near as politically active.

Brexit had a major major impact on global politics in your words. Yet you guys have spent years saying how it made us look stupid in the UK and cost the uk money. So surely it would only serve to unite global politics away from doing the same thing the thickos in the UK did.

Unless the were a variety of reasons for things happening around the world, perhaps more local issues specific to each region, as you know, happens in any decade.

Brexit having a major major impact on global politics despite apparently being seen as stupid around the world(been said by more then one poster more then once) is just plain mass hysteria. Hysteria seems to be all the rage at the moment, a better version then chavs and racists breaking into shops and looting but hysteria all the same.

 

[Baleforce]

In theory I agree but in practice it’s not realistic.

Then we are fudged because nothing else will work.

 

[thfcsteff]

Must have missed your posts at the start of the week. The are only so many posts a person can read on a subject before getting a tad bored and I have said im no where near as politically active.

Well, you made some pretty big point in my direction, and rather than dismiss them, I took you at face value and gave time and consideration to replying to you.

Brexit had a major major impact on global politics in your words. Yet you guys have spent years saying how it made us look stupid in the UK and cost the uk money. So surely it would only serve to unite global politics away from doing the same thing the thickos in the UK did.

You're missing the point but I'm not getting into it further, you either see the point or you don't.

Unless the were a variety of reasons for things happening around the world, perhaps more local issues specific to each region, as you know, happens in any decade.

Brexit having a major major impact on global politics despite apparently being seen as stupid around the world(been said by more then one poster more then once) is just plain mass hysteria. Hysteria seems to be all the rage at the moment, a better version then chavs and racists breaking into shops and looting but hysteria all the same.

See, this is where you lose me.
I'm fine disagreeing (that's life) but then you have to go and turn it into something flippant - 'hysteria seems to be all the rage at the moment' before conflating it with the current situation. You'll dip your toe in just enough to make your point before everything becomes a 'tad boring' or 'hysterical'. Tough to get past that really mate...

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

And how number 3 on that list is a bad thing in your eyes I will never understand. Or how you can list it as a cause for concern frankly worries me.

Democracy must always prevail. If Scotland vote to leave the UK or Gibraltar votes to go back to Spain.

If countries want disengage from a trading block that is for them to decide. Though Brexit being a 'disaster' would i have thought put them off.

Im off to bed because frankly this discussion is mind boggling.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Well, you made some pretty big point in my direction, and rather than dismiss them, I took you at face value and gave time and consideration to replying to you.





You're missing the point but I'm not getting into it further, you either see the point or you don't.




See, this is where you lose me.
I'm fine disagreeing (that's life) but then you have to go and turn it into something flippant - 'hysteria seems to be all the rage at the moment' before conflating it with the current situation. You'll dip your toe in just enough to make your point before everything becomes a 'tad boring' or 'hysterical'. Tough to get past that really...

Its a better version of hysteria. But clearly hysteria.

The Hungarians voted a far right leader because of brexit. Your smarter then that steff.

Have a glass of wine and chill.

The racists up north will get arrested as they should, as all criminals should. We have a labour government things will generally get a bit better.

 

[thfcsteff]

Its a better version of hysteria. But clearly hysteria.

The Hungarians voted a far right leader because of brexit. Your smarter then that steff.

Have a glass of wine and chill.

The racists up north will get arrested as they should, as all criminals should. We have a labour government things will generally get a bit better.

You apparently don't read what I say, you take what you want to see and ignore what you either don't know or don't want to research.

Very chilled thanks. Not drinking these days, doesn't fit in with my workout regimen, albeit if a drink felt right I'd happily have it.
You just sit back enjoy your wine, and here's to things getting better (more than 'a bit' I hope)...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I absolutely know the point you're making mate, but must just say that if you or your family had ever been a recipient/victim of it, you'd also have a massive fudging problem with racists who don't hide it.

At least you can deal with them though
You can identify the fudgers and address them accordingly
What we’re seeing now is hypocritical hidden acts
People hiding their faces robbing LUSH in the name of protecting this country… then going home and ordering a kebab
Utter toss stains
If I knew someone was racist I’d address it myself for the benefit if those that aren’t, like I believe 99% of the good people would

 

[thfcsteff]

And how number 3 on that list is a bad thing in your eyes I will never understand. Or how you can list it as a cause for concern frankly worries me.

Democracy must always prevail. If Scotland vote to leave the UK or Gibraltar votes to go back to Spain.

If countries want disengage from a trading block that is for them to decide. Though Brexit being a 'disaster' would i have thought put them off.

Im off to bed because frankly this discussion is mind boggling.

No it isn't mind boggling.
It's actually very clear.

You continually either try -or do- misinterpret what I'm writing.
#3 on my list? What? This?
"3. EU members increasingly saw that the EU as a body was no longer impregnable from either outside influence or further member disengagement."
I'm talking about member states seeing that those who seek to break up such blocks -Russia anyone?- suddenly saw that it wasn't going to be as easy to resist those overtures
(as in a union which is fragmenting under the pressure of fed-disinformation is susceptible to further divide and conquer fragmentation).

Ben - and I am trying to be nice here - please try to understand what I'm saying before telling me what I'm 'saying'.

BTW, IDGAF who voted for what.
It's happened.
It is what it is.
But to deny the facts around it?
Nah, no thanks.

 

[thfcsteff]

At least you can deal with them though
You can identify the fudgers and address them accordingly
What we’re seeing now is hypocritical hidden acts
People hiding their faces robbing LUSH in the name of protecting this country… then going home and ordering a kebab
Utter toss stains
If I knew someone was racist I’d address it myself for the benefit if those that aren’t, like I believe 99% of the good people would

They're about as obvious as they've been in years right now. I agree that the majority aren't. But history tells us there are a lot of disgruntled and unaware people when times are tough. Unimaginable things are happening globally right now, and IMO, to think of them as the actions of a minority few) is dangerous. It needs to be seriously addressed right now, and treated properly. This is not just confined to Britain.

 

[SpurMeUp]

A very important post, thanks mate as it reminds us that vigilance against these scum is vital, and we must also do more to make sure the average confused, scared people drifting in the middle do not become conversion-fodder for these nazi scum.

One last irony: Max Mosley wasn’t a bad egg. When young he was involved in his father’s fascist party. By the time he was old enough he spent the rest of his life distancing himself from his roots. Donating to the Labour Party etc.

After the News of the World set him up and filmed him with hookers dressed up in military uniforms (nazis) he went on a mission to fight back against the media.

Here we are today with social media and fake news central to the unrest with people worked up into a lather about these heinous killings. That the perpetrator was born here is represented. Instead social media allows base crap to proliferate. Max Mosley went on a crusade after he was setup. He took google to court, and won in France, forcing them to remove the content. He sued news papers and also sponsored anyone wishing to fight back.

There probably isn’t a way to put social media back in its box. It’s too late. But there must be ways to control some of the worst offences of our digital world. Teenagers taking their own lives because of online darkness. Civil unrest due to people perpetuating lies online. And pretty much all young people being exposed to unrealistic expectations and representations of life.

Idk what can be done about it. But you sense something has to develop from within social media for the sake of the next generations.

 

[tommysvr]

They are shaming our country.

They are. It looks an absolute fudging brickhole from where I live. I've always wanted to live in London to follow Spurs around...don't think that's ever going to happen. I've lived in Australia, Canada and Japan and would probably have another 50 countries on my list to live in before ever considering England.

...maybe that's what they want? Stop immigration by turning the country feral.

 

[Mikey10]

Even the Daily Heil seem to think Yaxley-Lennon’s a c*nt. Maybe they’ll lead with a story on their hero Farage on Tuesday morning; not sure where in the world he is at the minute, but I’m willing to bet it’s not Clacton.