• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Sick sick world what is wrong with people

AuroRaman said:
This then goes into a whole conversation of who they consider is the oppressor and the oppressed in this situation. Why don’t you speak to these people to find out their stance rather than me potentially butchering my understanding of it? You’re making very strong assumptions about their world view.
Click to expand...

Surely its a sadder indictment of the Israel response that they stand with a region that oppresses the LGBTQ community.

Free Palestine has been a movement for as long as I have been alive or at least remember its not just come about the last couple of weeks
 
Last edited:
AuroRaman said:
This then goes into a whole conversation of who they consider is the oppressor and the oppressed in this situation. Why don’t you speak to these people to find out their stance rather than me potentially butchering my understanding of it? You’re making very strong assumptions about their world view.
Click to expand...

It is simple. Intersectional activitism which you flagged up, is about standing up for peoples gender, race, reglion, and class rights. Correct?

People who are pro gender and peoples rights are backing a side closely associated with anti:

Anti-gay
Anti-jew
Anti-religious freedom.

Now of course that is not what queers for Palastine believe in. But they didn't write anything more nuanced, subtle or clever on their banner. So they side with one side over another in this overly polarised row. And I don't believe they unfurled a banner with Queers for Isreal when they were attacked and babies were murdered. So your point that they are simply sticking up for anti-voilence against babies doesn't wash. They are participating in the polarisation of the issue. They are backing 'their side'. However naively or eroneously. If you are unable to ackowledge that it just shows the power of in-groups.
 
SpurMeUp said:
It is simple. Intersectional activitism which you flagged up, is about standing up for peoples gender, race, reglion, and class rights. Correct?

People who are pro gender and peoples rights are backing a side closely associated with anti:

Anti-gay
Anti-jew
Anti-religious freedom.

Now of course that is not what queers for Palastine believe in. But they didn't write anything more nuanced, subtle or clever on their banner. So they side with one side over another in this overly polarised row. And I don't believe they unfurled a banner with Queers for Isreal when they were attacked and babies were murdered. So your point that they are simply sticking up for anti-voilence against babies doesn't wash. They are participating in the polarisation of the issue. They are backing 'their side'. However naively or eroneously. If you are unable to ackowledge that it just shows the power of in-groups.
Click to expand...

They stand with Palestine not Hamas
 
Grays_1890 said:
They stand with Palestine not Hamas
Click to expand...

Why not write something like: Queers against middle east violence. Or Queers against Isreali oppression of innocent Palastinians ? Istead: Queers for Palestine. Which is currently controlled by Hamas and has pre-Hamas laws that call for practicing gay people to be imprisoned for 10 years.

It speaks to a polarised in-group, avoids any appreciation of complex, nuanced debate or understanding. Ironic if they truely support notions of inclusion and understanding.
 
Last edited:
SpurMeUp said:
Why not write something like: Queers against middle east violence. Or Queers against Isreali oppression of innocent Palastinians ? Istead: Queers for Palestine. Which is currently controlled by Hamas and has pre-Hamas laws that can lock up practicing gay people for 10 years.

It speaks to a polarised in-group, avoids any appreciation of complex, nuanced debate or understanding. Ironic seeing as they support inclusion and understanding.
Click to expand...

Surely the highlighted is exactly the same message?

As I said earlier the whole free Palestine thing has been a thing for as long as I can remember, so its not just about the last couple of weeks, as much as everyone wants to make it about that.
 
SpurMeUp said:
It is simple. Intersectional activitism which you flagged up, is about standing up for peoples gender, race, reglion, and class rights. Correct?

People who are pro gender and peoples rights are backing a side closely associated with anti:

Anti-gay
Anti-jew
Anti-religious freedom.

Now of course that is not what queers for Palastine believe in. But they didn't write anything more nuanced, subtle or clever on their banner. So they side with one side over another in this overly polarised row. And I don't believe they unfurled a banner with Queers for Isreal when they were attacked and babies were murdered. So your point that they are simply sticking up for anti-voilence against babies doesn't wash. They are participating in the polarisation of the issue. They are backing 'their side'. However naively or eroneously. If you are unable to ackowledge that it just shows the power of in-groups.
Click to expand...

Are you aware how polarised YOU are on this issue? And again; you should speak to someone within an intersectional activist group to gain better understanding as you’re going round in circles. You’re questioning their ‘side’ because they’re not on yours, it’s as simple as that. It’s just too tedious to pick apart your posts now.

I don’t know what to tell you about their banner writing expertise. Maybe don’t worry about it if, as you’ve stated, you have an understanding of what they are trying to convey? I do want to re-highlight that part of your argument is ‘I just don’t like their banner’
 
Last edited:
Grays_1890 said:
Surely the highlighted is exactly the same message?

As I said earlier the whole free Palestine thing has been a thing for as long as I can remember, so its not just about the last couple of weeks, as much as everyone wants to make it about that.
Click to expand...

I just don’t understand why it’s so hard to see all of this.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Surely the highlighted is exactly the same message?

As I said earlier the whole free Palestine thing has been a thing for as long as I can remember, so its not just about the last couple of weeks, as much as everyone wants to make it about that.
Click to expand...

Not minded to repeat myself but: Palastine has had laws against gay people that pre-date Hamas. So no it is far away from the same thing. What people write is highly important as the LGBTQ community know more than most. A group who are keen to ensure correct lables are applied, the irony is clear.

I'll step away, hoping that gay people are given the same freedom they are in Isreal in other nations; and that the Isreali government stop killing any innocent people in Palastine.
 
Last edited:
SpurMeUp said:
Not minded to repeat myself: Palastine has had laws against gay people that pre-date Hamas. So no it is far away from the same thing. What people write is highly important as the LGBTQ community know more than most. A group who are keen to ensure correct lables are applied, the irony is clear.

I'll step away, hoping that gay people are given the same freedom they are in Isreal in other nations; and that the Isreali government stop killing any innocent people in Palastine.
Click to expand...

Free Palestine is a slogan its not a manifesto.

I suppose for the Tommy Robinsons of the world it gives the chance to make assumptions of the cause, but most know its been a things way before any of this and many explain their position. But generally, as this thread proves at times, no one listens to what anyone actually says but makes assumptions and apply labels to create abit of an echo chamber.

Is what it is I suppose
 
  • Like
Reactions: DTA
AuroRaman said:
I just don’t understand why it’s so hard to see all of this.
Click to expand...

I think more than anything it highlights one of hallmarks of the current era where certain groups feel they need to take a side rather than looking at something with nuance and trying to see both sides of the argument. 34 student groups at Harvard signed a letter condemning Israel for the initial attack at the music festival by Hamas. I completely get that Israel don’t always cover themselves in glory but I mean wtf! Some of the groups embarrassingly climbed down from the statement and claimed they hadn’t read it properly. Similar letters were signed at Ivy League colleges as well.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I think more than anything it highlights one of hallmarks of the current era where certain groups feel they need to take a side rather than looking at something with nuance and trying to see both sides of the argument. 34 student groups at Harvard signed a letter condemning Israel for the initial attack at the music festival by Hamas. I completely get that Israel don’t always cover themselves in glory but I mean wtf! Some of the groups embarrassingly climbed down from the statement and claimed they hadn’t read it properly. Similar letters were signed at Ivy League colleges as well.
Click to expand...

There is also as much a trend where people want sides picked and will assign you a side regardless which is unhelpful. An example being the Spurs message it put out which showed inclusive grief, the only problem was it actually didn't pick a side and they were panned for it.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I think more than anything it highlights one of hallmarks of the current era where certain groups feel they need to take a side rather than looking at something with nuance and trying to see both sides of the argument. 34 student groups at Harvard signed a letter condemning Israel for the initial attack at the music festival by Hamas. I completely get that Israel don’t always cover themselves in glory but I mean wtf! Some of the groups embarrassingly climbed down from the statement and claimed they hadn’t read it properly. Similar letters were signed at Ivy League colleges as well.
Click to expand...

Wait, what? They condemned Israel for the attacks BY Hamas??!

Agreed about groups taking sides but I’d go further and say that isn’t just certain groups but a general human characteristic?
 
AuroRaman said:
Wait, what? They condemned Israel for the attacks BY Hamas??!

Agreed about groups taking sides but I’d go further and say that isn’t just certain groups but a general human characteristic?
Click to expand...

Yep. Unbelievably poor from supposedly some of the brightest young people in the world and more worryingly, the future leaders of the world. Some of them have retracted the statement and claimed they didn’t properly read it. Inevitably, some of the students have now played the safety card as the names of the students have been leaked/published and the students say they don’t feel safe.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/11/business/harvard-israel-hamas-ceos-students/index.html

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2023/10/10/psc-statement-backlash/
 
spurspinter1 said:
An angry mob at an airport is scarier than war crimes? I appreciate you didn't make a direct comparison, it's all pretty scary but there are levels.
Click to expand...

it's all adding up

what I find scary that even the slightest movement in the needle of what's acceptable brings this kind of racism to the fore

I heard on the newsagents podcast this week, that UK reports of antisemitic hate crime in October were 13 times the level of 2022, 13 times
 
Baleforce said:
it's all adding up

what I find scary that even the slightest movement in the needle of what's acceptable brings this kind of racism to the fore

I heard on the newsagents podcast this week, that UK reports of antisemitic hate crime in October were 13 times the level of 2022, 13 times
Click to expand...

I don't doubt that anti semitic crimes are on the rise but I am suspect of any figures of how they're recorded - given the inquiries into the misuse of bodycams in the police force it's unsurprisingly hard to trust anyone on crime figures as surely those figures depend on those in power who are evidently untrustworthy even with necessary technology to protect themselves (this is referring to our issues in UK policing but naturally it's fair to assume the same problem is happening elsewhere unless there's a candyland eutopia where all the cops are really delightful and honest).

Who is moving the needle of what is acceptable? It's always in the hands of the individual. Obviously it depends on who or what sources you believe but both "sides" (looking at it from an Israel / Hamas perspective) have already gone beyond what is acceptable within civilised society so it's not surprising that it's mirrored elsewhere in the world.

Even if I'm rambling from an admittedly uneducated POV I hope I don't come off as biased, I've had plenty of Israeli friends I've met through travelling or uni but also friends that would near enough spit on the ground at the mention of Israel before stating that they don't recognize it as a country. It's most likely insultingly naive to those genuinely affected but it'd be great if we could possibly just get along as a species.. Instead so very many martyrs are being created and I can kind of understand how logic goes out of the window for people directly involved (not trying to justify any extreme actions taken by absolutely anyone)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back