So they'll need to expel 5 million people into Jordan, like Azerbajan just did with the Armenians, but 40 times the scale?
who have Azerbaijan expelled? Citations please.
So they'll need to expel 5 million people into Jordan, like Azerbajan just did with the Armenians, but 40 times the scale?
You could look at it in another way: country A doesn’t have to provide services to country B. Granted Gaza is not fully autonomous, and is under Israel’s control but it wants to be an independent state. Can you imagine supplying Germany with power and water as it bombed the UK? It’s not a completely fair analogy but it is a different way of viewing things. Gaza does have its own power plant but relies on Isreal. Yet if someone hates you and kills your people, you should sort them out anyway? I think they actually should but you can see why a democratic Israeli government don’t sort Gaza out with these services as their population have had 1000 people murdered.
120000 people. The entire population of the Nagorno Karabakh region: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...akh-ghost-town-un-ethnic-armenians-azerbaijanwho have Azerbaijan expelled? Citations please.
120000 people. The entire population of the Nagorno Karabakh region: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...akh-ghost-town-un-ethnic-armenians-azerbaijan
I don't know much about the history but hasn't there been a blockade for 16 years (since Hamas got voted in) by land and sea. Makes it difficult to develop or do much in those circumstances. I don't know how restricted they are - can they enter Israel for instance or what happens if they go out on a boat?
Seems to me there should have been a 2 state solution ages ago but the UN thing was voted in but neither side agreed with it and it's been gridlock since but without some form of a 2 state solution I don't really see any end to it.
did you read the article? They were not expelled at all, they left due to the hardship caused by the blockade and the fact they didn’t trust the Azeri government. Not saying the blockade was right, or they should trust the Azeri government- that’s a much longer and more nuanced post.
but no one was expelled. And 20,000 still remain.
The post you quoted was about cutting off power and water? But we can talk about the blockade. If you have Hamas in change, funded by Iran, who both state they wish to kill Jews and destroy Isreal, do you think it’s a good idea for Isreal to let any old goods into Gaza? Like rockets arms etc. clearly a lot got through for this massacre. Microlight aircraft, guns, plenty of rockets or components to make them.
In a democratic nation, who would say ‘you know what screw it, have free rein, bring in as many arms as you like’! No government would stay in power whether in the UK or Isreal faced with the very real threat and ability to reduce the threat. The current crisis shows that the blockade wasn’t staunch and the borders are quite porous in reality. Moreover you or I can buy Palestinian Oliver oil in the UK exported freely. And as mentioned Gaza has another border with an Islamic nation it doesn’t hate. I believe visa are given to Palestinians to enter Isreal. Wasn’t it common for Palestinians to work in Isreal and return each day? I think so.
It’s a bit obvious but to have a two date solution…you need two states, two functioning nations. There isn’t that. There is a total imbalance and Gaza doesn’t have a stable effective government. It’s not even a pariah state. Before Gaza was controlled by Isreal it was Egyptian, before that British, and before that Turkish. If anyone has a claim on Isreal maybe it is the Turks as they held the area for the longest period - maybe 700 years.
There is no doubt Isreal is partly to blame for Gaza being in limbo. Isreal is caught in a catch 22 where it can’t empower a quasi-state who is run by people who want to wipe it and its people from the face of the earth. Yet at the same time, for Gaza to progress and became a state (two-state solution) it needs stability, infrastructure, peace, development, investment. Which is why the role of Iran and others funding Hamas is so detrimental. Believe or not Isreal would like Gaza to be a stable independent nation. Isreal has stable good relations with Jordan and Egypt. Though both have to play up to Islamist fanatics int heir own nations who also hate Isreal.
Maybe what many left leaning commentators don’t appreciate is the history of hate towards Jews and Isreal. Thousands of Jews were displaced, drive out of homes and communities across the Middle East. I need to underit more but the Arab world rose up against Isreal in the 1940,50,60s. And the deep hate is sadly ingrained in some. Yet the Brits gave Isreal to zionists. And the League of Nations awarded Isreal to us Brits post ottomans.
I’ve always tried to keep an open mind on Isreal. Knowing there are fundamental Jews and settlers etc. but their wrongs don’t seem as indiscriminate and hate filled as the holy war many islamists believe they are waging.
Do you seriously believe that? And Putin only invaded Ukraine to get rid of Nazis? They fled to avoid a massacre when their army was breached. There were 20,000 left on the day of the article because they were still queueing at that point to get out, but there are none left now. It was a pogrom
This predates Hamas by a long way, and is exactly what I said. Why would Gaza accept the atrocities delivered unto it by Israel in Gaza and by its historic and ongoing land grabs? Israel isn't prepared to stop it's violence and oppression, so why would Hamas? Violence isn't just guns and bombs, it's also actions and inactions.
This is a situation Israel has exasperated.
Egypt has one border. Israel had six (I think) and has caused the issues. Egypt isn't oppressing Gaza, Israel is. Israel is creating a situation that forces Egypts hand. Egypt is not every bit as in control as Israel.
I don't want to see any one killed on either side truly, just like I'm sure the rest of you don't, and I really appreciate some dialogue and hope people in power do the same.
The issue I have with some of the conversation here is that the narrative is implying that only Gaza is Palestine. Gaza is just a small strip of Palestine as defined by International law. Gaza today is a highly densely populated cage systemically created by Israel caging in families and mainly children and young people into and open air prison.
If we look beyond what sadness of what has happened over the past 4 days... Everyday in Gaza as Palestine women, children and young people go about their daily business of shopping, going to school or work, the Israeli army or Israeli settlers go around shooting, raping women and girls or abducting children from their mothers and locking them up in cells. Isrealie soldiers decided they want to target practice and involuntarily sniper off men women and children cos they are bored. Homes are bulldozed because an Israeli settler wakes up and decides he wants his neighbours land to build a new house. This is the reality for Palestinians not just in Gaza but across the West Bank and across Israel (but particularly in Gaza). Even in Israel Isrealie citizen Palestinians and Isrealie Citizen Christian do not have equal rights in Law. It's a Colonial apartied state, and this is documented and agreed by the UN.
Alot of Isrealie young people are against the Government which is made up of Fascist and Radicalist who need the votes of the Zionists and Nationalist population to stay in Power.
When you have a people who have been persecuted and treat like animals in their own country, and the world ignores their plight against the oppressor, they will look for anyone to stand up for them. Unfortunately it's only Hamas who is prepared to pick up that batton which is a real shame on humanity.
If that happened to any of us we would be looking for anyone to stand up for us (no matter how crazy they are) just for someone to hear our cry for help.
Now the 'Civilised' world are making excuses to give a mandate for Israel justify the right to drop deadly bombs on innocent women and children in packed densely populated ghetto...so that they can sleep with a clear conscience. It's sick all round.
The post you quoted was about cutting off power and water? But we can talk about the blockade. If you have Hamas in change, funded by Iran, who both state they wish to kill Jews and destroy Isreal, do you think it’s a good idea for Isreal to let any old goods into Gaza? Like rockets arms etc. clearly a lot got through for this massacre. Microlight aircraft, guns, plenty of rockets or components to make them.
In a democratic nation, who would say ‘you know what screw it, have free rein, bring in as many arms as you like’! No government would stay in power whether in the UK or Isreal faced with the very real threat and ability to reduce the threat. The current crisis shows that the blockade wasn’t staunch and the borders are quite porous in reality. Moreover you or I can buy Palestinian Oliver oil in the UK exported freely. And as mentioned Gaza has another border with a Muslim nation it doesn’t hate. I believe visas are given to Palestinians to enter Isreal. Wasn’t it common for Palestinians to work in Isreal and return to Gaza each day? I think so.
It’s a bit obvious but to have a two state solution…you need two states, two functioning nations. There isn’t that. There is a total imbalance and Gaza doesn’t have a stable effective government. It’s not even a pariah state. Before Gaza was controlled by Isreal it was Egyptian, before that British, and before that Turkish. If anyone has a claim on Isreal maybe it is the Turks as they held the area for the longest period - maybe 700 years.
There is no doubt Isreal is partly to blame for Gaza being in limbo. Isreal is caught in a catch 22 where it can’t empower a quasi-state who is run by people who want to wipe it and its people from the face of the earth. Yet at the same time, for Gaza to progress and became a state (two-state solution) it needs stability, infrastructure, peace, development, investment. Which is why the role of Iran and others funding Hamas is so detrimental. Believe it or not Isreal would like Gaza to be a stable independent peaceful nation. Isreal has stable good relations with Jordan and Egypt. Though both have to play up to Islamist fanatics int heir own nations who also hate Isreal.
Maybe what many left leaning commentators don’t appreciate is the history of hate towards Jews and Isreal. Thousands of Jews were displaced, driven out of homes and communities across the Middle East. I need to underit more but the Arab world rose up against Isreal in the 1940,50,60s. And the deep hate is sadly ingrained in some. Yet the Brits gave Isreal to zionists. And the League of Nations awarded Isreal to us Brits post Ottoman Empire and WWI?.
I’ve always tried to keep an open mind on Isreal. Knowing there are fundamental Jews and settlers etc. but their wrongs don’t seem as indiscriminate and hate filled as the holy war many islamists believe they are waging.
Let me ask you a question about Hamas; do you genuinely believe that Hamas is acting in the interests of the Palestinian people?
That's a VERY important question to answer.
I don't think anyone outside Gaza does. But the significant majority that voted for them clearly does.Let me ask you a question about Hamas; do you genuinely believe that Hamas is acting in the interests of the Palestinian people?
That's a VERY important question to answer.
Let me ask you a question about Hamas; do you genuinely believe that Hamas is acting in the interests of the Palestinian people?
That's a VERY important question to answer.
I don't want to see any one killed on either side truly, just like I'm sure the rest of you don't, and I really appreciate some dialogue and hope people in power do the same.
The issue I have with some of the conversation here is that the narrative is implying that only Gaza is Palestine. Gaza is just a small strip of Palestine as defined by International law. Gaza today is a highly densely populated cage systemically created by Israel caging in families and mainly children and young people into and open air prison.
If we look beyond what sadness of what has happened over the past 4 days... Everyday in Gaza as Palestine women, children and young people go about their daily business of shopping, going to school or work, the Israeli army or Israeli settlers go around shooting, raping women and girls or abducting children from their mothers and locking them up in cells. Isrealie soldiers decided they want to target practice and involuntarily sniper off men women and children cos they are bored. Homes are bulldozed because an Israeli settler wakes up and decides he wants his neighbours land to build a new house. This is the reality for Palestinians not just in Gaza but across the West Bank and across Israel (but particularly in Gaza). Even in Israel Isrealie citizen Palestinians and Isrealie Citizen Christian do not have equal rights in Law. It's a Colonial apartied state, and this is documented and agreed by the UN.
Alot of Isrealie young people are against the Government which is made up of Fascist and Radicalist who need the votes of the Zionists and Nationalist population to stay in Power.
When you have a people who have been persecuted and treat like animals in their own country, and the world ignores their plight against the oppressor, they will look for anyone to stand up for them. Unfortunately it's only Hamas who is prepared to pick up that batton which is a real shame on humanity.
If that happened to any of us we would be looking for anyone to stand up for us (no matter how crazy they are) just for someone to hear our cry for help.
Now the 'Civilised' world are making excuses to give a mandate for Israel justify the right to drop deadly bombs on innocent women and children in packed densely populated ghetto...so that they can sleep with a clear conscience. It's sick all round.