Sandro, Parker, Modric should be in every starting line up

[metalgear]

This is where tactics comes in to play and sadly i don't think redknapp thinks with enough depth or detail that is required in today's game.

barca face teams like sunderland all the time and still win a majority of them.

what we did yesterday was occupy their half with no inkling about making runs to draw out their defences. we just keep passing the ball with sunderland getting reorganized wherever we go. part of this has really to do with off the ball running to drag defenders out of position, so that midfielders can make a run into the vacated space. the rest of it has got to do with modric/vdv/parker/bale just doing their individual thing, instead of playing together as a subunit in the team.

both are correctable in training.

 

[punk_is_back`]

Its these types of games yesterday where Someone like Hudd or Livermore would have proved useful. Sandro looked very rusty to me and slowed down our play, but we all know what he's capable of when fit. Unfortunately with Parker we know that even at his peak today that he slows down our passing game and the ball reaches the offensive players a lot slower than if we had Livermore or Hudd. He was out manoeuvered by even cattermole let alone sessegnon today. In a modern midfield its just not enough to be able to put the tackles in, you need to redistribute it well when you have the ball too.

 

[Badbrains]

The problem yesterday was a lack of discipline and shape in my eyes. Bale and VDV need to be forward or wide - not in CM. The number of times Modric and bale practically stood next to each other was driving me mental.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Like Richie already said, Essien and Vieira were a lot more box to box and a lot better going forward than Sandro and Parker. Vieira was also a lot more dynamic and better going forward, he often played alongside Petit, who I at least remember as a very good passer, that could be wrong though.

Keane at least was a very good passer, Ince was also very much thought of as a two-way player, wasn't he?

City did employ two defensive midfielders quite a bit last season, as a result they were boring, and really depended on Tevez to win them games. This season they have changed it, De Jong has gotten a lot fewer games as a result and they try to play at least one good passer in that deep duo. They look a lot better.

You are talking about ability now, not the style of player. Parker gets forward as much as Vieira did for example, but is clearly not in the same class as it. Two defensive style midfielders can work, but you need the right players. It's clear both Parker and Sandro are limited going forward.

As a side note, not related to your post, anyone who thinks Huddlestone would make a difference in our current midfield is tripping out of their mind. Huddlestone excels at spraying the ball early to the flanks. If we have no width then he becomes a waste of a shirt, as his actual forward passing isn't exactly defence splitting on a regular basis and against a deep lying defence those sort of passes have even less chance to succeed.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Its these types of games yesterday where Someone like Hudd or Livermore would have proved useful. Sandro looked very rusty to me and slowed down our play, but we all know what he's capable of when fit. Unfortunately with Parker we know that even at his peak today that he slows down our passing game and the ball reaches the offensive players a lot slower than if we had Livermore or Hudd. He was out manoeuvered by even cattermole let alone sessegnon today. In a modern midfield its just not enough to be able to put the tackles in, you need to redistribute it well when you have the ball too.

Then how come every successful side has a player like that? Almost every successful side has a player who wins the ball and keeps it simple.

Oh, and slowing down the passing tends to be a more positive thing than a negative.

 

[Hootnow]

I'll say again, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong or bad with a central three of Modric-Parker-Sandro. But it requires Modric to be slightly further forward, Sandro and Parker to keep it simple, Parker to please not advance beyond the halfway line, Bale to stop thinking he's Messi and stay on the left, where his talent is obvious and VDV to stop dropping back to the centrebacks. And for all our players to pass and move, not pass and stand still.

I doubt that would make us as likely to score goals as the 4-4-2 but sometimes we don't want to be going into games gung-ho and end to end. We should be able to keep it tight and yet still provide some kind of attacking threat.

I also agree with TMK above regarding Huddlestone. A player I love, especially his passing. But he would be been useless in matches like yesterday, who would be be spraying it exactly? Bale 20 yards directly ahead of him? VDV, who's just given him the ball between the centre circle and our box? For him to work well, we'd need at least one and preferably two players staying wide.

 

[braineclipse]

Then how come every successful side has a player like that? Almost every successful side has a player who wins the ball and keeps it simple.

Oh, and slowing down the passing tends to be a more positive thing than a negative.

A player. Not two on the pitch at the same time, especially not against a Sunderland type team.

Slowing down the passing on purpose to look for the right pass is often a positive. Slowing down passing because your first touch, one touch and passing skills are mediocre so you can't make the quick accurate passes

I'll say again, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong or bad with a central three of Modric-Parker-Sandro. But it requires Modric to be slightly further forward, Sandro and Parker to keep it simple, Parker to please not advance beyond the halfway line, Bale to stop thinking he's Messi and stay on the left, where his talent is obvious and VDV to stop dropping back to the centrebacks. And for all our players to pass and move, not pass and stand still.

I doubt that would make us as likely to score goals as the 4-4-2 but sometimes we don't want to be going into games gung-ho and end to end. We should be able to keep it tight and yet still provide some kind of attacking threat.

I also agree with TMK above regarding Huddlestone. A player I love, especially his passing. But he would be been useless in matches like yesterday, who would be be spraying it exactly? Bale 20 yards directly ahead of him? VDV, who's just given him the ball between the centre circle and our box? For him to work well, we'd need at least one and preferably two players staying wide.

There is something inherently wrong with a central three of Modric-Parker-Sandro. It's not Tottenham. If we played long balls up to a target man and pushed on like that, then perhaps. But we don't.

Hudd wouldn't be useless in a game like that at all. Maybe if we had more players that were able to pick them out with an accurate long pass our wide men would stay wide more. When it takes 3-4 passes and 10 touches to move the ball from one side to the other whatever space that was there to be exploited by staying wide has been closed down long ago.

 

[scaramanga]

As a side note, not related to your post, anyone who thinks Huddlestone would make a difference in our current midfield is tripping out of their mind. Huddlestone excels at spraying the ball early to the flanks. If we have no width then he becomes a waste of a shirt, as his actual forward passing isn't exactly defence splitting on a regular basis and against a deep lying defence those sort of passes have even less chance to succeed.

Having a passer deep in cm can create the width though.

If VDV, Bale and Modric don't have to drop within 5 yards of our cm to collect the ball the can stay where they'll be effective.

I know it's a bit chicken and egg, but I believe that having two destroyers is what's making us so narrow.

 

[scaramanga]

Oh, and slowing down the passing tends to be a more positive thing than a negative.

In a match where we're trying to overcome the opposition with possession, yes. If our opponents just want to block the centre then speeding up the passing is the only way to pull them out of shape.

 

[Rossi22]

Atleast we can put this myth to bed at how we're apparently oh so terrible when we line up this way.

 

[indianspur]

the manager ripped up his principles because someone told him 442 was the way to go

thats the level we are dealing with

 

[Libero]

the manager ripped up his principles because someone told him 442 was the way to go

thats the level we are dealing with

:ross: Quality

 

[Badbrains]

If Harry was going to go with a strategy of "involving players that did not play on Saturday" he should have at least kept the same shape. 4-3-3 or 4-5-1. This is why I started the thread. When you are not playing well, at least stay solid.

 

[Badbrains]

Bumping this up as I want to know if anyone's opinion has changed after the weekend?

 

[elltrev]

Bumping this up as I want to know if anyone's opinion has changed after the weekend?

Personally I don't like the Sandro - Parker - Modric combo in midfield. It requires Modric to play further forward than normal, which I don't think is his strength. And we end up sometimes lacking width AND support for Adebayor if VDV starts, given that he likes to come into deep central positions too.

Playing 4-4-1-1 with Parker and Modric as CMs and VDV ahead of them works well IMO. VDV is capable of putting in a good defensive shift if necessary, as he did against Chelsea. In the first half their only chances as I remember came from a long ball straight to Drogba (for his goal), another long ball straight to Drogba (when Gallas tripped and Drogba fluffed his shot), and a Walker mistake (that almost led to Mata getting in). None of them had anything to do with the midfield, and I thought we looked defensively solid and had a good shape to us.

Edit: The only time it might be worth playing IMO would be away to Barcelona or Madrid or something, if you wanted to set up very defensively and rely on the counter attack. Adebayor up front as the outlet for when we gain back possession, then Lennon, Bale and Modric all breaking forward in support.