Whiffler
Jermaine Jenas
Not much of a chat-up line.
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Sandro - Beast
- Thread starter N10 Yiddo
- Start date
Not much of a chat-up line.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
Interesting.... I rate King as one of the best centre halves I have ever seen and absolutely loved Berbatov from his very first game for Spurs when he displayed better control than any player I had seen at Spurs for a long, long while. However Sandro or Parker?.... Not much between them to be honest. I think one could make a case for either of them to be considered the more effective player and it's not a case of 'Sunday league' or 'la Liga'....
I think if anything people have a penchant for going the other way with (for example) some people being sucked in by 'exotic' AVB, but hating Sherwood - despite the fact the latter probably did a marginally better job.
On another note - how **** did Capoue look last night?.... He makes Huddlestone look mobile. Christ we've been sold a Turkey there eh? Now there was a case of us selling an English player to buy a (less suited) foreign one for twice the price if ever I saw one.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
Think before you post.... Some people will use this site at work etc... I suggest you edit/delete your post.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Ian Walker
Nice to see that intellectual debate is still alive and well on this site
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Parker filled a need we had. That need was to be a hustler alongside one of the best midfielder's in Europe (you know, the little guy we never replaced), the developing monster that was Bale and the cheeky japester maestro that was VdV. He had a simple job to do, he did it well for two-thirds of the season, then he started tiring and regressed into circular mode. As for Sandro's positioning last season, are you referring to the season where he came back after ugly injury and had to slot into a side with numerous new signings, a manager on the brink and a squad shorn of confidence? As for 'slowing the play down', didn't you just say you watched matches? Are you telling me that on a regular basis, Scotty Parker passed forwards more than Sandro? Oh how I wish there was a stat for that so as we could see who owes who an apology!
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Really disappointed, as again, there is a player in there but will we ever see him?
I just can't see the similarity at all. Even ignoring the fact that Sandro is far, far better at getting the ball quickly to the more creative players (absolutely essential if we're going to continue playing with a double pivot), his ability to read a game and position himself correctly is as good as anyone's in the PL - not something that one could say about Parker. Whilst Sandro has the ability to tackle like a mother****er, most of his game is spent defending more like Carrick than Carragher - Parker quite the opposite.
His mind is infinitely faster when on the ball too. He either steps into space quickly or gets the ball to a more creative player quickly. I assume you can see the advantage of that over spinning around a couple of times, sprinting with the ball towards Dawson and then passing to him from 3 yds when Dawson's already marked? Sandro also seems to have grasped the concept of playing the ball in front of a running player and directly (or into nearby space) for a stationary one - again, not something Parker could ever be accused of.
Now one could forgive someone who had only seen Sandro half-fit and returning from injury and comparing that to a highlights reel of Parker's entire career coming to other conclusions, but I'll assume you've done more than that.
I should hope that as Spurs fans we do have a penchant for a more modern, passing-based style of football. If we have to reduce it to my original comparisons, AVB would certainly be La Liga with Dimothy clearly being Sunday League (probably about 20 years ago though).
Didn't see the game but that's a shame if it's the case. I thought he looked quite promising in parts from what I'd seen so far.
Kingdawson
Banned
Totally and utterly false.
Sandro > Parker > Palacios
Each player has been better than previous, Wilson/Parker had huge impacts (perhaps more than Sandro) due to how desperately we needed that type of player at the time. Much better overall squad today, but to me Sandro is still critical to the team, especially against tougher opponents.
Each player has been better than previous, Wilson/Parker had huge impacts (perhaps more than Sandro) due to how desperately we needed that type of player at the time. Much better overall squad today, but to me Sandro is still critical to the team, especially against tougher opponents.
Superhudd
Simon Davies
Dunga appointed... good news for Sandro hopefully
Millsy_Yiddo
Naybet
Agree with all this.
Mumorn
Vic Buckingham
I'm not surprised you disagree. That's fair enough, you loved Parker.
Mumorn
Vic Buckingham
Bad news for Brazil though, that's set them back another 5 years.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
Firstly yes as somebody who has had an ST at Spurs for close to 20 years and attended a healthy amount of away games I have seen a lot more of both Parker and Sandro than Sandro in his time recovering from injury (which has actually been a little too frequent) and Parker's highlights reel.
Don't get me wrong I am, and always have been, a big fan of Sandro (and on many threads I have said that I'd like to keep him and instead move on Capoue if we can bring in Schneiderlin) I wasn't suggesting that Parker was a far better player than Sandro, I wasn't even suggesting that Parker was any better at all, just that at their best for us there wasn't much to choose between them in terms of their effectiveness to the team. I am thinking back to the 2011-2012 season when Parker first joined. I thought he was an integral part of that team that finished 4th (and IMO would've finished 3rd had Harry kept his mind on the Spurs job). If I recall correctly Parker got the Spurs player of the year award at the end of that season - so one would assume he must've been doing something right?
I think that you make some salient points about Sandro's assets, but you also underplay Parker's contribution (especially when at his best during that first season he was with us). Now Parker's pointless pirrouettes used to annoy the hell out of me as much as they did anyone, but he was actually player that kept possession very well overall. I also think that Parker at his best was perhaps better than Sandro at moving off the ball to make himself available to receive a pass from a teammate, Parker was also very adept at spotting when the opposition were overloading us or we had overcommitted in attack and left ourselves exposed and then slotting in to fill that hole. Some of the problems that we got into under AVB in terms of us having such a poor shape that was so easily exposed by the opposition on the break I'm not sure would've happened had Parker been playing.
To come on to your points about AVB = La Liga / Sherwood = Sunday League. I disagree. Now I certainly have a penchant for a more modern, passing-based style of football I just disagree with your original comparisons. If comparing AVB and Sherwood I personally would rate them both somewhere around the Erevidisie and Turkey's Super League.... In that at a certain level the football that both get their team to play is effective but at the higher levels it is easily exposed. With that being the case and both philosophies being equally effective (ineffective?) as a paying customer I'd rather watch the equally effective/ineffective football that entertains me the most - and having got to the point where it was a chore to use my ST and attend the game under AVB, watching Sherwood's team was (at times) a comparative breath of fresh air last season. It wasn't something that I wanted us to continue with long term as it wasn't going to get us to where we needed to be, just as was the case with the man that he succeeded.
Hopefully we now we finally have the right man in charge of our club. A manager who has an effective football philosophy that also results in a team that the spectator wants to watch.
As an aside - you do realise that it isn't necessary to belittle the views of those that disgree with your points don't you?
Kingdawson
Banned
I and a lot of others disagree ...hence Parker winning our Player of the season award. Of course on GG it's different though so i wouldn't be surprised if your opinion is the general consensus.
I think you are confusing the fact that Parker (like Wilson before him), had a major impact when he first arrived because we desperately needed that position covered and our midfield was very easy for opposition to walk through, with him actually being a better player than Sandro.
Today's Spurs midfield can be extremely physically imposing with a lot of high energy players (options we didn't have in Parker era), but Sandro is still a much better player physically, technically, tackling, ball distribution, etc. We don't have to play Sandro, but in my opinion we are better when we do.
Kingdawson
Banned
No.
I think you're confusing me disagreeing with Mumorn's comment that Sandro was "infinitely better than Parker in Parkers first season when he got an opportunity" with me saying Parker is better than Sandro. For what it's worth i think Sandro is a better player than Parker.
Millsy_Yiddo
Naybet
He just does that, it's his tone of posting, personally I think it's a ploy to keep the board busy, but who am I to judge.
I think all in all your description of Parker in his first season is pretty spot on, he was excellent for us, and I don't seem to remember him spinning about as much. Parker's decline (IMO) came when he tried to be more than a defensive midfielder for us. I'm not sure if that was a managerial decision or just the player himself, but I remember him starting to try and bring the ball out, play a bit more and that was the start of his decline IMO. All in all, he is a very good central midfielder when that is what he concentrates on, but when both are employed as defensive midfielders, I still feel Sandro is the better option (when both in their prime).
Kyle Walker was voted our best ever right back, Sgt Pepper got voted the best album ever in Random, UKIP came out of the european elections pretty strongly. I hold the opinion of large groups of people in very, very low esteem.
I don't think Parker kept possession well at all. Whilst the stats will show that his pass often reached a Spurs player, I lost count of the times they were forced into a hoof or losing the ball because of his indecision and telegraphing of every pass. He just didn't have the ability to contribute at all from an attacking sense. His ability in the tackle made up for him being a yard or two out of position all the time which may have masked some of what's missing from his game.
Whilst Parker was always available for a pass, I don't think he was ever thinking past "I'll stand where they can get the ball to me" - there was no vision of the flow of the game or seemingly any idea where the ball was going after he received it (hence the pirouettes). I quite agree that Parker would have helped some of the defensive issues under AVB - I think a fit Sandro would have helped more though.
I think that much of people's opinions about how good Parker is has been based on underrating (or not noticing) the contribution that Modric made. Not only was his movement and creativity enough to compensate for Parker's offensive blindness, but he was also incredibly good at pressing all over the pitch and getting a toe in too. He may not have been making the 2 yard sliding tackles that Parker did, but he was a massive influence on our team defensively.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on all but the last paragraph there I think. It's old ground and not something either of us are likely to move on any time soon.
Yes, it's just that people make it so damn difficult not to!
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
Spurs player of the year backwards from 2014 to 1987:
2014: Eriksen
2013: Bale
2012: Parker
2011: Modric
2010: Dawson
2009: Lennon
2008: Keane
2007: Berbatov
2006: Keane
2005: No award (no idea why?)
2004: Defoe
2003: Keane
2002: Davies
2001: Sullivan
2000: Carr
1999: Carr
1998: Ginola
1997: Judas
1996: Judas
1995: Sherringham
1994: Klinsmann
1993: Anderton
1992: Linkeker
1991: Paul Allen
1990: Gascoigne
1989: Thorstvedt
1988: Waddle
1987: Mabbutt
Looking at the above I'd say the award may not have always gone to the BEST player (but of course it's always subjective) However I would say that it looks pretty damn difficult to receive the award if you're not amongst the best few players over that entire season.... The year that Parker won the award we had Modric, Bale and Van Der Vaart all playing well and real fan favourites so it wasn't like we didn't have a 'flair' player to give the award to either. I get it that Parker wasn't the easiest on the eye, I get it that he wasn't foreign and sexy and tucked his shirt in and had a boring haircut and didn't make opposing fans go "Ooooh Scott Parker!" but he was a very good player for us in 2011-2012 and a big part of us being able to dominate the midfield in most matches that we played. I think it's unfair to belittle the contribution that he made in that season.
Yup, I think that would be for the best.... Just wondering though - did you ENJOY watching the football Spurs played under AVB in his second season?
I was always taught that belittling the other side's views was the first sign that one was losing an argument.
