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Sandro - Beast

glorygloryeze said:
Yes, but only because he couldn't lie after Sandro's tweet...which bring up the question about some others not playing that we assume are 'injured':

- Lamela?
- Dawson?
- Capoue?
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Certainly seems likely.

I can honestly understand a player like Sandro doing this, and he did so in the most respectful way possible I thought.

I'm not sure how long players like Lamela and Capoue with World Cup ambitions would have been keeping quiet about an injury lie. Much like Sandro I think we would have heard about it sooner or later. Dawson probably would have kept quiet, but I don't think there's any chance Sherwood would have dropped him for Chiriches in the first place.
 
braineclipse said:
Certainly seems likely.

I can honestly understand a player like Sandro doing this, and he did so in the most respectful way possible I thought.

I'm not sure how long players like Lamela and Capoue with World Cup ambitions would have been keeping quiet about an injury lie. Much like Sandro I think we would have heard about it sooner or later. Dawson probably would have kept quiet, but I don't think there's any chance Sherwood would have dropped him for Chiriches in the first place.
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Capoue, perhaps...In Lamela's case remember there have been pics of him doing keepy-uppies etc on Instagram...and his Inglesi is not meant to be as good as Sandro's...
 
glorygloryeze said:
Let's hope you're right....we'll see if Lamela is included in the Argie squad, or even close to being included...
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With the attacking talent they have available and this season having been a complete write off for him I really doubt he'll be included even if he ran an iron man tomorrow to prove his fitness. :)
 
glorygloryeze said:
Yes, but only because he couldn't lie after Sandro's tweet...which bring up the question about some others not playing that we assume are 'injured':

- Lamela?
- Dawson?
- Capoue?
Click to expand...

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/xtra-training-gallery-april-22-220414/
Etienne Capoue was back in training and completed the full session as the squad continued preparations for Saturday's Premier League clash at Stoke.
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So what now? Are they just trying to throw us off the scent?
 
@AddictedtoSpurs

"Sandro on Sherwood: “I respect him, I have nothing against him, let him speak. I will continue working, I’m a professional." #THFC

"Everyone loves me at Tottenham, it is my home. I'm happy here at Tottenham." #THFC
 
markysimmo said:
@AddictedtoSpurs

"Sandro on Sherwood: “I respect him, I have nothing against him, let him speak. I will continue working, I’m a professional." #THFC

"Everyone loves me at Tottenham, it is my home. I'm happy here at Tottenham." #THFC
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Translation:

I'll bide my time until a real manager comes in.
 
scaramanga said:
Translation:

I'll bide my time until a real manager comes in.
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Well, your 'translation', assuming it were needed, is your biased spin and has an agenda. Be that as it may, I'm concerned how an alleged 'beast' would 'bide his time'. As a pro, making good money, you would play accordingly. Regardless of manager. Otherwise you aint really a 'beast'. Except maybe on the internet waves, where you look exceedingly foolish, taking on a rookie manager who was inserted mid-season. If I were a huge Sandro fan there is no way I'd be thrilled by this. Not sure he'd feature under LVG anyway, and then what? He still a beast?
 
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sc25 said:
Well, your 'translation', assuming it were needed, is your biased spin and has an agenda. Be that as it may, I'm concerned how an alleged 'beast' would 'bide his time'. As a pro, making good money, you would play accordingly. Regardless of manager. Otherwise you aint really a 'beast'. Except maybe on the internet waves, where you look exceedingly foolish, taking on a rookie manager who was inserted mid-season. If I were a huge Sandro fan there is no way I'd be thrilled by this. Not sure he'd feature under LVG anyway, and then what? He still a beast?
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An important point to absorb here mate...for that to happen, the manager has to play you. And have a system for you to play in. Or even tell you what to do.
 
I read a piece in 442 magazine a few weeks back about the role of the defensive midfielder in football. It was about how Makelele brought the role to the modern era, and how Mjalby and Guardiola were pioneers of the position. In it though, was a quote from Tim's No. 2 assistant, Les Ferdinand, stating 'the worst thing that happened in this league was Claude Makelele' as a generation of players were worried about passing forward, or crossing the halfway line. In another interview he stated that Tim agreed with him.

So in essence, our management team at the moment are disregarding the role a player who a championship winning team was built upon. Arguably the most important player at Chelsea when they first won the league, noticeably missing from Real Madrid when not replaced. But it's ok, Tim was smiling and honest when cornered with a question about Sandro's quality. Right?
 
clownfoot said:
I read a piece in 442 magazine a few weeks back about the role of the defensive midfielder in football. It was about how Makelele brought the role to the modern era, and how Mjalby and Guardiola were pioneers of the position. In it though, was a quote from Tim's No. 2 assistant, Les Ferdinand, stating 'the worst thing that happened in this league was Claude Makelele' as a generation of players were worried about passing forward, or crossing the halfway line. In another interview he stated that Tim agreed with him.

So in essence, our management team at the moment are disregarding the role a player who a championship winning team was built upon. Arguably the most important player at Chelsea when they first won the league, noticeably missing from Real Madrid when not replaced. But it's ok, Tim was smiling and honest when cornered with a question about Sandro's quality. Right?
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Oh dear
 
clownfoot said:
I read a piece in 442 magazine a few weeks back about the role of the defensive midfielder in football. It was about how Makelele brought the role to the modern era, and how Mjalby and Guardiola were pioneers of the position. In it though, was a quote from Tim's No. 2 assistant, Les Ferdinand, stating 'the worst thing that happened in this league was Claude Makelele' as a generation of players were worried about passing forward, or crossing the halfway line. In another interview he stated that Tim agreed with him.

So in essence, our management team at the moment are disregarding the role a player who a championship winning team was built upon. Arguably the most important player at Chelsea when they first won the league, noticeably missing from Real Madrid when not replaced. But it's ok, Tim was smiling and honest when cornered with a question about Sandro's quality. Right?
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I think there's a point in that.

Look at Arsenal, yes they've done well to bring back Flamini, but often they still do well with Arteta as their deepest midfielder. Real have looked really good with Alonso, Modric and Di Maria as their central 3. Not a player there similar to Sandro or Makelele in style. I don't think many here would have described Gerrard as a defensive midfielder at the start of the season, yet here we are - Liverpool about to win the league with Gerrard as their anchor man. At Juve it's Pirlo next to players like Pogba, Vidal and Marchisio. At Barcelona the more "pure defensive midfielder" that is Mascherano has been moved to a centre back position.

There are many ways to skin a cat. The dedicated defensive midfielder has to some extent fallen out of fashion and most top class anchor men or deep midfielders are also very able on the ball like Alonso, Carrick, Gerrard now, Busquets, Javi Martinez etc. And are thus to me not really well described as the classical "defensive midfielder".

Part of this is also that Makelele was underrated on the ball and that although his defensive abilities were often highlighted it did seem to make it fine to be a central midfielder that was severely limited on the ball "because Makelele" - even though Makelele himself really wasn't that limited (imo).

This doesn't mean that there isn't room for a defensive midfielder like Sandro in modern football. Not at all. But I do think there's a point that a player like that might not (always) be necessary. And that players like that really have to also be good ball players to become truly top class players.
 
braineclipse said:
I think there's a point in that.

Look at Arsenal, yes they've done well to bring back Flamini, but often they still do well with Arteta as their deepest midfielder. Real have looked really good with Alonso, Modric and Di Maria as their central 3. Not a player there similar to Sandro or Makelele in style. I don't think many here would have described Gerrard as a defensive midfielder at the start of the season, yet here we are - Liverpool about to win the league with Gerrard as their anchor man. At Juve it's Pirlo next to players like Pogba, Vidal and Marchisio. At Barcelona the more "pure defensive midfielder" that is Mascherano has been moved to a centre back position.

There are many ways to skin a cat. The dedicated defensive midfielder has to some extent fallen out of fashion and most top class anchor men or deep midfielders are also very able on the ball like Alonso, Carrick, Gerrard now, Busquets, Javi Martinez etc. And are thus to me not really well described as the classical "defensive midfielder".

Part of this is also that Makelele was underrated on the ball and that although his defensive abilities were often highlighted it did seem to make it fine to be a central midfielder that was severely limited on the ball "because Makelele" - even though Makelele himself really wasn't that limited (imo).

This doesn't mean that there isn't room for a defensive midfielder like Sandro in modern football. Not at all. But I do think there's a point that a player like that might not (always) be necessary. And that players like that really have to also be good ball players to become truly top class players.
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Great post braineclipse
 
braineclipse said:
I think there's a point in that.

Look at Arsenal, yes they've done well to bring back Flamini, but often they still do well with Arteta as their deepest midfielder. Real have looked really good with Alonso, Modric and Di Maria as their central 3. Not a player there similar to Sandro or Makelele in style. I don't think many here would have described Gerrard as a defensive midfielder at the start of the season, yet here we are - Liverpool about to win the league with Gerrard as their anchor man. At Juve it's Pirlo next to players like Pogba, Vidal and Marchisio. At Barcelona the more "pure defensive midfielder" that is Mascherano has been moved to a centre back position.

There are many ways to skin a cat. The dedicated defensive midfielder has to some extent fallen out of fashion and most top class anchor men or deep midfielders are also very able on the ball like Alonso, Carrick, Gerrard now, Busquets, Javi Martinez etc. And are thus to me not really well described as the classical "defensive midfielder".

Part of this is also that Makelele was underrated on the ball and that although his defensive abilities were often highlighted it did seem to make it fine to be a central midfielder that was severely limited on the ball "because Makelele" - even though Makelele himself really wasn't that limited (imo).

This doesn't mean that there isn't room for a defensive midfielder like Sandro in modern football. Not at all. But I do think there's a point that a player like that might not (always) be necessary. And that players like that really have to also be good ball players to become truly top class players.
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A great post.

I think that it pays to be wary of orthodoxies and it is becoming close to an orthodox belief amongst fans that you need a DM.
 
That's an excellent post (again) from Braineclipse.

Scaramanga.....do you remember we had this discussion about Carrick being a DM before?
 
thfcsteff said:
An important point to absorb here mate...for that to happen, the manager has to play you. And have a system for you to play in. Or even tell you what to do.
Click to expand...

While that is true.... I think a manager should only select a player if the player is showing the right desire and attitude in training. Now I am not suggesting I have any idea whether Sandro is or isn't doing so currently, but if he isn't then Sherwood has every right not to pick him and give him a message that he needs to do this to force his way into the team. IMO a manager cannot pick players on past performances or reputation alone. Remember also that Sandro was a big favourite of Sherwood's 'mentor' Harry Redknapp.

Wasn't there also a similar situation with Paulinho recently? A player who seems to have since fought his way back into the team and shown better performances?
 
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