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Safe Standing at Football Matches
- Thread starter Jurgen the German
- Start date
Whiffler
Jermaine Jenas
Re: O/T Aston Villa back plan to trial standing area
Combined with fan behaviour on entry.
Numbered seating is good, numbered standing more suitable.
I don't think what's being trialled at Bristol is the same as in Germany, as theirs increases capacity. What limited shots I've seen here looks to be much the same as standard seating.
Combined with fan behaviour on entry.
Numbered seating is good, numbered standing more suitable.
I don't think what's being trialled at Bristol is the same as in Germany, as theirs increases capacity. What limited shots I've seen here looks to be much the same as standard seating.
Craig_J
Mido
Re: O/T Aston Villa back plan to trial standing area
You forgot the awful policing and idea that you can let in as many as you want in. You can have 2 fans for every eat so just double the capacity of the stand.
So no, it DOES increase the capacity. Dortmunds 'yellow brick wall' holds 12,500 people for Champions League and international matches. For Bundesliga games the stand holds 25,000 people increasing the capacity and atmosphere substantially.
You forgot the awful policing and idea that you can let in as many as you want in. You can have 2 fans for every eat so just double the capacity of the stand.
So no, it DOES increase the capacity. Dortmunds 'yellow brick wall' holds 12,500 people for Champions League and international matches. For Bundesliga games the stand holds 25,000 people increasing the capacity and atmosphere substantially.
milo
Jack L. Jones
Other than fencing, **** poor policing was the cause not standing or fan behaviour.
If it wasn't for a fair amount of luck it would have been us a couple of years earlier.
7percent
Pascal Chimbonda
Re: O/T Aston Villa back plan to trial standing area
I'd expect the regulations for safe standing in britain to be stricter than Germany. Just because they can double capacity doesn't mean it will happen.
[Edit] Just read they'll be using it at rugby games. No idea what the rugby governing bodies will make of it. Hopefully They'll double the capacity and show the FA the way forward.[/Edit]
I'd expect the regulations for safe standing in britain to be stricter than Germany. Just because they can double capacity doesn't mean it will happen.
[Edit] Just read they'll be using it at rugby games. No idea what the rugby governing bodies will make of it. Hopefully They'll double the capacity and show the FA the way forward.[/Edit]
Last edited:
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Re: O/T Aston Villa back plan to trial standing area
I'd be interested to know how they achieve this. Do they just squash them in, or what system do they use?
I'd be interested to know how they achieve this. Do they just squash them in, or what system do they use?
7percent
Pascal Chimbonda
Re: O/T Aston Villa back plan to trial standing area
As I understand it the seat is folded upwards leaving ample space for two people to stand one behind the other.
As I understand it the seat is folded upwards leaving ample space for two people to stand one behind the other.
It looks a bit tight for two rows of people standing. Probably won't be room for padded seats though.
Could only find this one ginormous pic from Westfalen: http://barclayendprojekt.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/055.jpg
It looks steep.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
It looks a bit tight for two rows of people standing. Probably won't be room for padded seats though.
Could only find this one ginormous pic from Westfalen: http://barclayendprojekt.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/055.jpg
It looks steep.
Cheers. It does look a little tight all right. The person behind wouldn't want to get too 'excited' during a game.
Wouldn't the rail be directly in your eyeline if you are sitting?
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Thanks. I guess if the space between rows was a bit more generous than in the picture then there should be enough room.
Sandman
Jermaine Jenas
This picture I found suggests 2 steps per row. So one person would stand on the lower step and one on the higher?
If you remember back to the standing days it was pretty much like that. A step each basically. The thing cramming the space is the mettal bars obviously. So as long as they make room for that on the 2nd Step and keep a minimum space in the two steps where you can actually stand then it will be fine.
Would love to get standing back. Even in a limitied capacity in one home end that is all members etc it would in improve the atmosphere no end. With this level of safety i dont understand how the govement can be so against it. The fact that other high level sports are alllowed standing and not footbal is a form of pregidice based on one high level incident ( i know it almost happened other times ) and was a massive over reaction. If this happened in time it would be perfect timing for our new stadium build, with our steep Home end that could be safe standing and a capacity over 60k due to doubling that end's allowance for fans.
I really want to get to a game in Germany soon. Dortmund is on my list.
milo
Jack L. Jones
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Safe standing
Safe standing: Lib Dems make 2015 General Election pledge
The Liberal Democrats want to change the law and allow Premier League and Championship clubs to introduce safe standing at stadiums.
The party has confirmed to BBC Sport it plans to make the pledge as part of its 2015 General Election manifesto.
Currently, the Football Spectators Act 1989 requires safety authorities to ensure fans attending games in England's top two divisions are seated.
However, the party is not advocating a return to open terracing.
It believes rail seats, popular within German football, should be introduced if clubs wish to install standing sections.
Rail seats can be locked in an upright position to allow fans to stand and lean against a barrier.
However, the seats can also be unlocked to comply with all-seater stadium rules, as and when required.
The Football Supporters' Federation (FSF) has led a campaign in favour of safe standing for several years.
"Football can't bury its head in the sand," said an FSF spokesman. "Tens of thousands already stand at games.
"Clubs who back rail seats are simply listening to their fans and responding to safety needs.
Germany has had rail seats for many years and they have had no problems. The Government tells us it needs robust proof, so let's have a trial and see."
Several Premier League clubs - including Aston Villa, Burnley, Crystal Palace, Sunderland and Swansea City - now back the introduction of rail seats on a trial basis.
The Football League has also lobbied for a change in legislation given a number of its 72 clubs would like to implement standing in their grounds.
However, the Premier League has reiterated its opposition, telling BBC Sport: "It remains the Premier League's position that stadiums should be all-seat, in line with government policy, and we will not be encouraging the government to change the law."
Liberal Democrat spokesperson John Leech MP believes the evidence to allow standing is overwhelming.
"Safe standing is allowed in many other sports and we do not believe that the top level of football should be an exception," he said.
"We are not calling for a return of the terraces of the 1980s. Modern safe standing areas using rail seating operate very successfully in top-tier football across Europe."
With the Liberal Democrats struggling in the polls, an outright victory for the party in next year's election may seem unlikely.
However, the formation of another coalition government could see safe standing feature in any negotiations between the parties over a combined legislative agenda.
Following the recommendations of Lord Justice Taylor's report into the Hillsborough disaster in 1989, in which 96 Liverpool fans lost their lives, clubs in the top two tiers of English football have been required to provide every spectator with a seat.
The Liberal Democrat pledge promises to amend the law to allow safety authorities in England and Wales to issue guidance to clubs on how safe standing could be introduced.
The FSF also claims safe standing would make it cheaper for fans to watch games.
"Standing areas in safety-conscious nations such as Germany are traditionally far cheaper, with season tickets available for a fraction of the cost at equivalent-sized clubs in the UK," added the spokesman.
Leech agrees, adding: "Safe standing offers supporters more choice, a better atmosphere and cheaper tickets. It is an idea whose time has come and I am proud that it is the Liberal Democrats who are the first political party to commit to delivering this."
Earlier this year, Bristol City installed a small section of rail seats at their Ashton Gate stadium.
However, they are only able to utilise them during Bristol Rugby games which also take place at the ground.
Scottish Premiership clubs are also strong backers of safe standing.
However, Celtic's application to install a section of rail seating was rejected by Glasgow City Council earlier this month.
The council claimed Celtic's plan did not offer enough assurances to its safety advice group, which included representatives from the emergency services.
In Wales, Assembly members recently voted 26-1 to support the introduction of safe standing, believing that football should be no different from rugby or other sports.
However, as the laws relating to standing are not devolved, any change in Wales would require Westminster MPs to vote in favour of reform.
Strong opposition to standing does remain, with the Association of Chief Police Officers saying previously that they would need to be convinced over whether it could work within some of England's largest stadiums.
The Hillsborough Families Support Group have also steadfastly maintained their position against any return of standing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28886330
Safe standing: Lib Dems make 2015 General Election pledge
The Liberal Democrats want to change the law and allow Premier League and Championship clubs to introduce safe standing at stadiums.
The party has confirmed to BBC Sport it plans to make the pledge as part of its 2015 General Election manifesto.
Currently, the Football Spectators Act 1989 requires safety authorities to ensure fans attending games in England's top two divisions are seated.
However, the party is not advocating a return to open terracing.
It believes rail seats, popular within German football, should be introduced if clubs wish to install standing sections.
Rail seats can be locked in an upright position to allow fans to stand and lean against a barrier.
However, the seats can also be unlocked to comply with all-seater stadium rules, as and when required.
The Football Supporters' Federation (FSF) has led a campaign in favour of safe standing for several years.
"Football can't bury its head in the sand," said an FSF spokesman. "Tens of thousands already stand at games.
"Clubs who back rail seats are simply listening to their fans and responding to safety needs.
Germany has had rail seats for many years and they have had no problems. The Government tells us it needs robust proof, so let's have a trial and see."
Several Premier League clubs - including Aston Villa, Burnley, Crystal Palace, Sunderland and Swansea City - now back the introduction of rail seats on a trial basis.
The Football League has also lobbied for a change in legislation given a number of its 72 clubs would like to implement standing in their grounds.
However, the Premier League has reiterated its opposition, telling BBC Sport: "It remains the Premier League's position that stadiums should be all-seat, in line with government policy, and we will not be encouraging the government to change the law."
Liberal Democrat spokesperson John Leech MP believes the evidence to allow standing is overwhelming.
"Safe standing is allowed in many other sports and we do not believe that the top level of football should be an exception," he said.
"We are not calling for a return of the terraces of the 1980s. Modern safe standing areas using rail seating operate very successfully in top-tier football across Europe."
With the Liberal Democrats struggling in the polls, an outright victory for the party in next year's election may seem unlikely.
However, the formation of another coalition government could see safe standing feature in any negotiations between the parties over a combined legislative agenda.
Following the recommendations of Lord Justice Taylor's report into the Hillsborough disaster in 1989, in which 96 Liverpool fans lost their lives, clubs in the top two tiers of English football have been required to provide every spectator with a seat.
The Liberal Democrat pledge promises to amend the law to allow safety authorities in England and Wales to issue guidance to clubs on how safe standing could be introduced.
The FSF also claims safe standing would make it cheaper for fans to watch games.
"Standing areas in safety-conscious nations such as Germany are traditionally far cheaper, with season tickets available for a fraction of the cost at equivalent-sized clubs in the UK," added the spokesman.
Leech agrees, adding: "Safe standing offers supporters more choice, a better atmosphere and cheaper tickets. It is an idea whose time has come and I am proud that it is the Liberal Democrats who are the first political party to commit to delivering this."
Earlier this year, Bristol City installed a small section of rail seats at their Ashton Gate stadium.
However, they are only able to utilise them during Bristol Rugby games which also take place at the ground.
Scottish Premiership clubs are also strong backers of safe standing.
However, Celtic's application to install a section of rail seating was rejected by Glasgow City Council earlier this month.
The council claimed Celtic's plan did not offer enough assurances to its safety advice group, which included representatives from the emergency services.
In Wales, Assembly members recently voted 26-1 to support the introduction of safe standing, believing that football should be no different from rugby or other sports.
However, as the laws relating to standing are not devolved, any change in Wales would require Westminster MPs to vote in favour of reform.
Strong opposition to standing does remain, with the Association of Chief Police Officers saying previously that they would need to be convinced over whether it could work within some of England's largest stadiums.
The Hillsborough Families Support Group have also steadfastly maintained their position against any return of standing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28886330
Lemonade Money
Les Medley
This picture I found suggests 2 steps per row. So one person would stand on the lower step and one on the higher?
Surely the lower step is for getting in and out, and the seat isn't much use if you've got someone standing in front of you! It doesn't look like it takes up less space than a seat (because its got one), but is purely for those who prefer to stand with a sit down at half time, like me. Also better for singing standing up.
7percent
Pascal Chimbonda
As I understood it one person can stand on the lower step and one on a higher. During a game that requires an all seater stadium (european/international fixtures) the seats are unlocked so they can be folded down. All other times the seats are locked away.
Lemonade Money
Les Medley
Middle of a game and you need to go. Then what?