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Roberto Soldado

Re: Official - Soldado

braineclipse said:
And still just the one league goal this year, right?

As the team looked better in the last couple of games Defoe has been getting a couple of decent chances. I'm not quite sure that you can say that's because of what Defoe does and not just because as a team we played better. If Defoe was this much better, if he gets "gets played in ALOT more than solly" I would have expected him to score a few more goals this season and last.
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before i get down this discussion with you, just let me know if that kind of reasoning...., i.e top level minus any basic dissection of events / situations, is the way you want to go mate

not confrontational at all please dont take it like that :), but i am on borrowed time here and i am more used to you saying insightful stuff worth talking about, as opposed to, say for instance.... stats = conclusion
 
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Re: Official - Soldado

africanspurs said:
before i get down this discussion with you, just let me know if that kind of reasoning...., i.e top level minus any basic dissection of events / situations, is the way you want to go mate

not confrontational at all please dont take it like that, but i am on borrowed time here and i am more used to you saying insightful stuff worth talking about, as opposed to stats = conclusion
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Fair question.

It's not the end of the discussion, I don't mind looking at things deeper. I just thought it illustrated the point I was getting at. From what I remember from the second half of last season it wasn't that Defoe was constantly getting massive chances and wasting them, it was that we weren't creating big chances. From this season when Defoe was first introduced into the team in the PL instead of Soldado very little happened for him because we weren't creating chances.

In the last couple of games, as the whole team has been playing better, Defoe has gotten a couple of decent chances. In the EL both Defoe and Soldado score by the bucketload when playing.

Does that seem like a fair description? To me the common denominator for us creating big chances doesn't seem to be Defoe. Thus I struggle to see how it's his superior movement that is making the difference.
 
Re: Official - Soldado

I just wanted to add to that, since the discussion did mention some pundit opinions.

Sometimes the media have a story to tell, they have their narrative and they look for examples to back that narrative rather than some objective presentation of what's been going on. I've noticed at least once where a "why isn't Soldado scoring" bit was being run and examples of his poor movement were highlighted, but they weren't really examples of that at all. It was just a case of him moving into one space and the ball/crosses being played into another. Had Soldado been scoring I think some of those clips would have been used to highlight how good his movement was as he did get away from defenders and the old "always finding space, sometimes he gets the ball" would have been carted out.

I haven't seen Neville analyze this and he obviously has a better reputation than most pundits so he might have found some better examples to highlight a point, but in general I'm not convinced at all that Soldado's movement is a problem.
 
Re: Official - Soldado

braineclipse said:
Fair question.

It's not the end of the discussion, I don't mind looking at things deeper. I just thought it illustrated the point I was getting at. From what I remember from the second half of last season it wasn't that Defoe was constantly getting massive chances and wasting them, it was that we weren't creating big chances.

From this season when Defoe was first introduced into the team in the PL instead of Soldado very little happened for him because we weren't creating chances.

In the last couple of games, as the whole team has been playing better, Defoe has gotten a couple of decent chances. In the EL both Defoe and Soldado score by the bucketload when playing.

Does that seem like a fair description?

To me the common denominator for us creating big chances doesn't seem to be Defoe. Thus I struggle to see how it's his superior movement that is making the difference.
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thanks for that , appreciate it.

I can get with what you are saying and you are probably right, i just know that when defoe plays we have 10 outfield players and not 9 due to one doing his instinctive thing and getting put on the outskirts of the game

as far as i can tell defoe's movemnet incorporates BOTH build up, as best as as guy like defoe can, and penetrative play...for that alone i feel we have more of a dimension when attacking these teams.....the ball doesnt have to get 'stuck' on the peripherals of the final third because we actually have someone we can build on deeper inside it.....i woudlnt say his movement is better than soldado's ...not if i put my current mood swings to the side and think it through..i'm not THAT crazy....but i dont think soldado's movement is that much better than defoe's either /.....if at all right now.....whats more is that this dude gets lost in the game for VAST amounts of time..at least on the box when i watch........and if you are going to do that then your movement needs to put you are the business end of everything dangerous that happens in the final third..and when you opportunity comes...please take it ...otherwise you offer nothing but goals and not that much at that from open play and there are loads of people you can get that have that top line description
 
Re: Official - Soldado

braineclipse said:
I just wanted to add to that, since the discussion did mention some pundit opinions.

Sometimes the media have a story to tell, they have their narrative and they look for examples to back that narrative rather than some objective presentation of what's been going on. I've noticed at least once where a "why isn't Soldado scoring" bit was being run and examples of his poor movement were highlighted, but they weren't really examples of that at all. It was just a case of him moving into one space and the ball/crosses being played into another. Had Soldado been scoring I think some of those clips would have been used to highlight how good his movement was as he did get away from defenders and the old "always finding space, sometimes he gets the ball" would have been carted out.

I haven't seen Neville analyze this and he obviously has a better reputation than most pundits so he might have found some better examples to highlight a point, but in general I'm not convinced at all that Soldado's movement is a problem.
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yes i think you mean that each person has an agenda. Like les ferdinand yesterday showing solly in a very positive light and neville in a negative one.

thing is that between the two i would

a) value neville's thoughts more
b) think that neville has les of a bias than the striker coach of tottenham

With neville what he shows isnt at all just circumstancial , he tells you why and where the run for optimum efficiency is , from his perspective , and why the ball probably doesnt get played to soldado...his is an opinion just like any other and the reason i use him in particular is because he is of the same opinion as i am. Soldado's movement so far doesnt suit the way the team was set up and plays ...SO FAR.....and he hasnt adapted to make that change

its mind boggling how you can buy a player like that and not know you have to play to his strengths
 
Re: Official - Soldado

africanspurs said:
thanks for that , appreciate it.

I can get with what you are saying and you are probably right, i just know that when defoe plays we have 10 outfield players and not 9 due to one doing his instinctive thing and getting put on the outskirts of the game

as far as i can tell defoe's movemnet incorporates BOTH build up, as best as as guy like defoe can, and penetrative play...for that alone i feel we have more of a dimension when attacking these teams.....the ball doesnt have to get 'stuck' on the peripherals of the final third because we actually have someone we can build on deeper inside it.....i woudlnt say his movement is better than soldado's ...not if i put my current mood swings to the side and think it through..i'm not THAT crazy....but i dont think soldado's movement is that much better than defoe's either /.....if at all right now.....whats more is that this dude gets lost in the game for VAST amounts of time..at least on the box when i watch........and if you are going to do that then your movement needs to put you are the business end of everything dangerous that happens in the final third..and when you opportunity comes...please take it ...otherwise you offer nothing but goals and not that much at that from open play and there are loads of people you can get that have that top line description
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Going back to stats, based on your statements about 10 outfield players instead of 9 would you expect the stats to reflect that in terms of number of passes for example for Defoe when compared to Soldado? I haven't checked this yet, more of a curiosity on my side if you expect stats to reflect reality similarly to your observations on this?

africanspurs said:
yes i think you mean that each person has an agenda. Like les ferdinand yesterday showing solly in a very positive light and neville in a negative one.

thing is that between the two i would

a) value neville's thoughts more
b) think that neville has les of a bias than the striker coach of tottenham

With neville what he shows isnt at all just circumstancial , he tells you why and where the run for optimum efficiency is , from his perspective , and why the ball probably doesnt get played to soldado...his is an opinion just like any other and the reason i use him in particular is because he is of the same opinion as i am. Soldado's movement so far doesnt suit the way the team was set up and plays ...SO FAR.....and he hasnt adapted to make that change

its mind boggling how you can buy a player like that and not know you have to play to his strengths
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Less of an agenda to be honest and more a need to tell a story on the parts of journalists and pundits. "We have a 2 minute slot to fill, we have a column to write" It has to tell a story, it has to be narrative driven. Pick a narrative that superficially makes sense and look for supporting evidence, chances are you'll find something.
 
Re: Official - Soldado

Tottenham Hotspur v Liverpool: Spain striker Roberto Soldado vows to repay fans' faith

Striker says he is back to his best after struggles on the pitch and heartbreak off it

Roberto Soldado has admitted that his performances have fallen below “the level that I expect of myself” since his £26 million move to Tottenham Hotspur.

The 28-year-old striker was a key acquisition for Spurs in the £107 million flurry of summer spending – an older, more experienced player among a raft of younger signings – but he has struggled to be among the goals for his new club.

However, the Spain international said that he was not prepared to allow the move to north London to be used as mitigation against his disappointing form.

“Of course it is difficult, but I certainly don’t think that a change of country and a new language is any excuse whatsoever for not performing at the level that I expect of myself,” Soldado said ahead of the Premier League home match against Liverpool on Sunday.

“I think that I’ve been here for long enough now to have a good understanding with my team-mates during a game which is the most important thing and let’s hope that from now on you will start to see another Roberto Soldado.”

That Roberto Soldado is emerging. There was the fillip of a hat-trick, and a fine performance, in the Europa League this week against the Russian side Anzhi Makhachkala with Soldado admitting that it was “a boost for my own confidence too” to score three times – and for the first time since October.

Soldado now has nine goals in 16 appearances but five of those have come in two Europa League ties and four of his goals have been penalties.

Previously he scored 59 times in 101 games for Valencia.

Soldado and his family are enjoying life in England. “My family feel fine and are settled, so am I, the only thing missing were the goals,” he said.

However, he did reveal that he and his wife, who already have two children, have recently had to deal with the personal tragedy of a miscarriage. “A month ago she was pregnant but unfortunately she had a miscarriage and lost the baby two weeks ago,” Soldado said.

It is clearly a subject on which he does not want to dwell, having previously joyfully posted the news of the pregnancy on the social media site Instagram, as Soldado turns to concentrating on his football.

On his form, Soldado said: “It’s difficult, I haven’t played in the last two Premier League games and the team haven’t been picking up good results either so to win the last two away games has been absolutely vital for us.

“I haven’t had a chance to feature in those two games but I think that learning from everything is a way of attracting attention and seeing that you are doing things in the best way possible and respecting and waiting for your opportunity and then doing your talking on the pitch.”

A hat-trick, no matter the strength of the opposition or the occasion, helps – as does the backing of the Spurs’ supporters. “I haven’t been performing how I would have expected, this fan-support has always been unconditional and at least now I can show my gratitude to them with goals, which is what they want to see,” Soldado said.

He has not been the only Tottenham signing to struggle to find his best form – with record transfer Erik Lamela, who cost up to £30 million, when all add-ons are factored in, also largely disappointing. Even Soldado’s fee – at £26 million – is not as high as it appears, breaking down into £13 million plus a further £13 million if targets and incentives are met.

Soldado said of 21-year-old Lamela: “It’s not easy, when you change leagues and change countries you are going to need that time to settle in, and I think it’s tough for all of us, and he’s no exception, but as I say, when he reaches his best form, he will show everything that people have been expecting to see.”

If Spurs win today they will draw level on points with Liverpool, who started the weekend in second place with head coach Andre Villas-Boas claiming that it would put them “back in contention”. It would also represent a return four points ahead of this time last year — when Tottenham finished the campaign with a record 72 points.

“What we all want, is to have 30 points on the board come Sunday,” Soldado said. “It’s going to be a difficult game for us, we all know what sort of potential Liverpool have, but we are at home and we need to be strong and go for the win.

"I think the team is looking good at the moment and we’ve picked up a few wins. It’s all about working hard and keeping this run going and having the same mindset.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/10518366/Tottenham-Hotspur-v-Liverpool-Spain-striker-Roberto-Soldado-vows-to-repay-fans-faith.html
 
Re: Official - Soldado

Jordinho said:

Even Soldado’s fee – at £26 million – is not as high as it appears, breaking down into £13 million plus a further £13 million if targets and incentives are met.
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Who knew? Should at least help reduce the pressure on him a little.

Good to see he has such a positive attitude. Hope he can turn it into match-winning goals come Sunday.
 
Re: Official - Soldado

****ing awful news regarding the miscarriage. I haven't read too much about it so I dont know when it's from or how long he's known but I wonder if this is why Defoe got his starts the past two league games and played 90 minutes in both? as AVB had felt Soldado needed time out etc. which puts what was said about AVB in his book to truth about being a great man manager.
 
Re: Official - Soldado

Honestly, puts things into perspective, must affect the guy, at this level, it will make a difference.

Sympathy to him and the wife ..
 
Re: Official - Soldado

Must be some of the hardest news for a person to get. Like Raziel said, a lot of sympathy to him and his wife.
 
Re: Official - Soldado

That's the issue sometimes, people just see them as football players and so expect them to play at 100% each time they walk onto the pitch, they are human beings as well and have lives outside of football, we all have days where things get to us, upset us, etc...

I hope he plays today and gets some great support from the fans and gets the winner, let the lane show him we love him today
 
Re: Official - Soldado

we all know strikers more than any other position rely on confidence and form and I do believe that once he knocks a couple in (from open play) in a league game, he can show why we paid so much to acquire him, but as of right now, he really couldnt score in a ..........
 
Re: Official - Soldado

i'd stick with soldado.
he's gotten much better with space and a partner up front.
and he is still on his way to the top of his game.
 
Re: Official - Soldado

I think the English game is slowly coming with him. He seems more robust in the things he's doing in recent games. Working a bit harder, running a bit harder, finding his way with his new partnership.

And honest to GHod, how can he not have had even a lucky tap-in off a rebound or a flukey in-off-his-ar$e goal yet? Those come to any striker 3 or 4 times a season at least and yet nothing like that seems to break for Soldado. Yesterday I seem to recall him around the pen spot, unmarked, and a poxy clearance dribbled to a space just a step away from him. NONE of those are dribbling to him. It's freakish.

Wiki tells me he's 9 in 19 in all competitions for Spurs. In the league, it's only 4 but we still have 23 games to go. 16 goals in those games isn't impossible. You probably wouldn't bet on it, but it wouldn't be lighting money on fire if you did.
 
Re: Official - Soldado

Raziel said:
I still believe in him, supply him and at some point it will go in by the hatful.
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I agree fully.

Got plenty of chances against Southampton, not so many against WBA, but we should keep with it and if we can create chances like against Southampton the goals will come.
 
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