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Richarlison

Bishop said:
I got the whimsical bit I just wanted to cut through all the faff. 😅

15 in all comps is mediocre, I'm just not afraid to say it as it is. There's really not much more to it than that tbh. We definitely agree that the squad is rated as better than it is in general by Spurs fans, I guess that's just what it is.
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Faff is my middle name. Well it's one of them anyways. Spurs Faff Faffington Pinter. You can't take that away from me, along with the joy when Richy occasionally scores.

I think one of the main strengths of both of our current CF options is pressing, which doesn't always transfer into goals for that specific player but is hugely beneficial to the current "system". Both provide assists, I bet Richy's stats would be more flattering (but still just alright rather than brilliant) if looked at as goal involvements. Who would you rather have as cover for CF / LW? It's tricky as we don't really know what direction we're going in. I don't watch enough football to be clued up anymore, that up and comer Chris Wood looks a good shout, we'd be great at not crossing the ball to him!

Nobody has accused you of being afraid to share your opinion, it's kinda the opposite if anything, but you're welcome to do so. Not everyone is going to see it as you do, but Richy and Werner have had disappointing seasons, that's indisputable.
 
spurspinter1 said:
Faff is my middle name. Well it's one of them anyways. Spurs Faff Faffington Pinter. You can't take that away from me, along with the joy when Richy occasionally scores.

I think one of the main strengths of both of our current CF options is pressing, which doesn't always transfer into goals for that specific player but is hugely beneficial to the current "system". Both provide assists, I bet Richy's stats would be more flattering (but still just alright rather than brilliant) if looked at as goal involvements. Who would you rather have as cover for CF / LW? It's tricky as we don't really know what direction we're going in. I don't watch enough football to be clued up anymore, that up and comer Chris Wood looks a good shout, we'd be great at not crossing the ball to him!

Nobody has accused you of being afraid to share your opinion, it's kinda the opposite if anything, but you're welcome to do so. Not everyone is going to see it as you do, but Richy and Werner have had disappointing seasons, that's indisputable.
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I see a lot of forwards I'd rather have tbh, specifically Ekitike from Frankfurt example, things he has over Richy are touch, close control etc. I don't think you have a striker who is so poor technically in your forward areas if your intention is to this slower intricate proving football. Richy is particularly unsuited to playing that game.
 
Bishop said:
I see a lot of forwards I'd rather have tbh, specifically Ekitike from Frankfurt example, things he has over Richy are touch, close control etc. I don't think you have a striker who is so poor technically in your forward areas if your intention is to this slower intricate proving football. Richy is particularly unsuited to playing that game.
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But that's the issue, and part of where you and I have different views of player quality/evaluation

- Is Richi a top level PL striker? no
- Could you set up the team where it provided him more chances as a poacher in box (especially for headers) where he could get 15-18 a season? I genuinely believe so.
- Biggest issue for me with Rich is fitness, and that's the reason he has to be moved on, quality aside, not physically reliable

But it comes down to system being adjusted to get best out of players
- Son & Johnson don't work well in congested spaces
- Richi is not useful to you 30 yards from goal
- Bentancur is not a DM

List goes on, Solomon looks really good at Leeds because they play to what he's good at (and yes, somewhat level), could name a few players that left us and other big clubs recently that look way better on loan where the club they are going to, plays to their strengths.
 
Bishop said:
I see a lot of forwards I'd rather have tbh, specifically Ekitike from Frankfurt example, things he has over Richy are touch, close control etc. I don't think you have a striker who is so poor technically in your forward areas if your intention is to this slower intricate proving football. Richy is particularly unsuited to playing that game.
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I haven't seen enough of him but Ekitike is a good shout, some real nice close control / skills, we've not had that type of striker in a while. Berba being the last I can think of..

Do we play slow intricate football? It just seems to be launching the ball in the box and cutbacks, things that Richarlison should thrive on.
 
Raziel said:
But that's the issue, and part of where you and I have different views of player quality/evaluation

- Is Richi a top level PL striker? no
- Could you set up the team where it provided him more chances as a poacher in box (especially for headers) where he could get 15-18 a season? I genuinely believe so.
- Biggest issue for me with Rich is fitness, and that's the reason he has to be moved on, quality aside, not physically reliable

But it comes down to system being adjusted to get best out of players
- Son & Johnson don't work well in congested spaces
- Richi is not useful to you 30 yards from goal
- Bentancur is not a DM

List goes on, Solomon looks really good at Leeds because they play to what he's good at (and yes, somewhat level), could name a few players that left us and other big clubs recently that look way better on loan where the club they are going to, plays to their strengths.
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My issue with Richy is no matter how well you set up a team to suit a fox in the box role at the top end of the game you need more than that. No top team is playing with a striker with such poor control and overall baggy use of the ball. In tight games, in tight moments you need a technician, someone who can look after the ball and Richy isn't that. There are simply far too many times in every game where he displays his poor control of the ball.

spurspinter1 said:
I haven't seen enough of him but Ekitike is a good shout, some real nice close control / skills, we've not had that type of striker in a while. Berba being the last I can think of..

Do we play slow intricate football? It just seems to be launching the ball in the box and cutbacks, things that Richarlison should thrive on.
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Yes we generally play rather slowly, maybe not intentionally but it's often slow.with regards to Richy feasting on cutbacks see my point above as to why it's not a sustainable long term tactic. Besides once Ange is gone we might move past that rather basic tactic.
 
Bishop said:
My issue with Richy is no matter how well you set up a team to suit a fox in the box role at the top end of the game you need more than that. No top team is playing with a striker with such poor control and overall baggy use of the ball. In tight games, in tight moments you need a technician, someone who can look after the ball and Richy isn't that. There are simply far too many times in every game where he displays his poor control of the ball.


Yes we generally play rather slowly, maybe not intentionally but it's often slow.with regards to Richy feasting on cutbacks see my point above as to why it's not a sustainable long term tactic. Besides once Ange is gone we might move past that rather basic tactic.
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You know my kids once saw a clip of Richarlison for Brazil where someone was dropping balls from the top of the stadium and each of the players were trying to trap it, Richarlison stopped it almost dead and my 2 boys still shout "Richarlison" whenever one of them has a good touch or controls a high ball in the garden or at training etc haha!

Football was so much more fun when you are young hey!


Edit: Just found the video... I completely forgot that he had 2 attempts and completely missed the first one lol!

 
dingdongo said:
You know my kids once saw a clip of Richarlison for Brazil where someone was dropping balls from the top of the stadium and each of the players were trying to trap it, Richarlison stopped it almost dead and my 2 boys still shout "Richarlison" whenever one of them has a good touch or controls a high ball in the garden or at training etc haha!

Football was so much more fun when you are young hey!


Edit: Just found the video... I completely forgot that he had 2 attempts and completely missed the first one lol!

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I'm not sure a video could sum him up any better. Supremely skilful at his best, rather ordinary (a compliment) outside of that.

He's not at his best nearly enough for us. Whether that's injury, confidence, whatever - it's not enough.
 
dingdongo said:
You know my kids once saw a clip of Richarlison for Brazil where someone was dropping balls from the top of the stadium and each of the players were trying to trap it, Richarlison stopped it almost dead and my 2 boys still shout "Richarlison" whenever one of them has a good touch or controls a high ball in the garden or at training etc haha!

Football was so much more fun when you are young hey!


Edit: Just found the video... I completely forgot that he had 2 attempts and completely missed the first one lol!

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I remember playing in the park and shouting “Sinton” whenever I did anything great.

I think he scored a Martin Tyler commentated screamer at some point and it stuck in my head.
 
Richi's stats for Spursv recently are quite scarily good actually.

This season 4 goals and 1 assist in 384 mins on the pitch in the league - contribution every 76 mins
Last season 1493 mins, 11 goals, 4 assists - contribution every 99 mins

Compare that to Solanke
7 goals, 3 assists in 2056 mins - contribution every 206 mins
For B'mouth - 19 goals and 3 assists in 3333 mins - contribution every 151 mins

We saw it again at the weekend. There is not a lack of quality with Richi. A fit Richi has a lot to offer.

However I will re-quote what #Raziel said above "Biggest issue for me with Rich is fitness, and that's the reason he has to be moved on, quality aside, not physically reliable"

It's also the way I'm thinking about it.

We're about to enter the last 2 years of his contract as well so valuations start going down.
 
In another world, One where he was fit and played every week, and the team was set up to get the ball wide and just swing in crosses then he could probably really thrive, maybe like a Pulis Stoke side from the 00s
 
Muttley said:
Richi's stats for Spursv recently are quite scarily good actually.

This season 4 goals and 1 assist in 384 mins on the pitch in the league - contribution every 76 mins
Last season 1493 mins, 11 goals, 4 assists - contribution every 99 mins

Compare that to Solanke
7 goals, 3 assists in 2056 mins - contribution every 206 mins
For B'mouth - 19 goals and 3 assists in 3333 mins - contribution every 151 mins

We saw it again at the weekend. There is not a lack of quality with Richi. A fit Richi has a lot to offer.

However I will re-quote what #Raziel said above "Biggest issue for me with Rich is fitness, and that's the reason he has to be moved on, quality aside, not physically reliable"

It's also the way I'm thinking about it.

We're about to enter the last 2 years of his contract as well so valuations start going down.
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Yeah I think this is being glossed over. 15 goals and 5 assists in 1877 minutes under Ange is an outstanding return, over a decent sample size too (around 21 matches if playing every minute). Agree though that his buildup play is a weakness, and his fitness is obviously a huge issue. If he could stay fit though I think we could do a lot worse for a backup #9, especially in Ange's system.
 
scaramanga said:
I'm not sure a video could sum him up any better. Supremely skilful at his best, rather ordinary (a compliment) outside of that.

He's not at his best nearly enough for us. Whether that's injury, confidence, whatever - it's not enough.
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He’s the archetypal KamikAnge-ball player, regularly injured and even when he is fit enough to play you don’t know whether he’s going to give us Samba football or hoof it like Zamora.
 
Muttley said:
Richi's stats for Spursv recently are quite scarily good actually.

This season 4 goals and 1 assist in 384 mins on the pitch in the league - contribution every 76 mins
Last season 1493 mins, 11 goals, 4 assists - contribution every 99 mins

Compare that to Solanke
7 goals, 3 assists in 2056 mins - contribution every 206 mins
For B'mouth - 19 goals and 3 assists in 3333 mins - contribution every 151 mins

We saw it again at the weekend. There is not a lack of quality with Richi. A fit Richi has a lot to offer.

However I will re-quote what #Raziel said above "Biggest issue for me with Rich is fitness, and that's the reason he has to be moved on, quality aside, not physically reliable"

It's also the way I'm thinking about it.

We're about to enter the last 2 years of his contract as well so valuations start going down.
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I think there is a lack of quality but the way he plays it’s the chaos effect and that does have some benefits
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I think there is a lack of quality but the way he plays it’s the chaos effect and that does have some benefits
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Yeah, it's a good observation about Richi causing chaos to our benefit.

What concerns me though is heading back to that dark place where we don't have two number nines. Whilst we had Janssen, Llorente, Vinicius etc passing through we went for years without a proper Kane backup. I'm not sure whether Solanke has another gear, but he's no prime Kane in my opinion. We really need another number 9 pushing Dom all the way next season.

Perhaps a new manager and a different system enables Tel, Sonny, Johnson etc to operate more like centre forwards though.
 
Muttley said:
Yeah, it's a good observation about Richi causing chaos to our benefit.

What concerns me though is heading back to that dark place where we don't have two number nines. Whilst we had Janssen, Llorente, Vinicius etc passing through we went for years without a proper Kane backup. I'm not sure whether Solanke has another gear, but he's no prime Kane in my opinion. We really need another number 9 pushing Dom all the way next season.

Perhaps a new manager and a different system enables Tel, Sonny, Johnson etc to operate more like centre forwards though.
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When we sell him we will replace him I’m sure
 
Muttley said:
Richi's stats for Spursv recently are quite scarily good actually.

This season 4 goals and 1 assist in 384 mins on the pitch in the league - contribution every 76 mins
Last season 1493 mins, 11 goals, 4 assists - contribution every 99 mins

Compare that to Solanke
7 goals, 3 assists in 2056 mins - contribution every 206 mins
For B'mouth - 19 goals and 3 assists in 3333 mins - contribution every 151 mins

We saw it again at the weekend. There is not a lack of quality with Richi. A fit Richi has a lot to offer.

However I will re-quote what #Raziel said above "Biggest issue for me with Rich is fitness, and that's the reason he has to be moved on, quality aside, not physically reliable"

It's also the way I'm thinking about it.

We're about to enter the last 2 years of his contract as well so valuations start going down.
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Let him play 38 games and you will see there certainly is a pack of quality. Even with the few games he's played you can see he lack quality, the poor touch, the poor control, the terrible attempts at dribbling etc. This is not a top level forward.

I'm going to say that time old cliched thing, when he leaves us he's not going to a team higher up the totem pole because they would want better, so should we.
 
Dont think he is fully fit, he is just so slow and static. Against Forest he made very few runs into space and ran into his marker rather than try to lose him. Solanke comes on chases a ball/bad pass thats going out for a goal kick, gets to it (somehow) and recycles the attack. At the moment Richie could not do that. WOuld like to see Dane Scarlet given a chance, but dont know if he is injured.
 
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