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Richarlison

Bishop said:
It sounds like you're basing your views on a tiny sample size. The world cup was 4 games for Brazil how you can use this as some sort of basis for his ability over the 35 he has played for us and the 170 odd he has previously played in the PL confuses me. Are you sure you were watching Richalison at the World Cup and not some other player? 🤣

What's a silly offer? If you're gonna say more than we paid for him then I don't think that's silly, that's crazy. If we keep him his value is only going to keep decreasing and we end up in the same situation we have been in recent years when we literally can't give the player away because their form and performances are poor for us.

Sometimes you have to get out while you're ahead and that time would be now, we need to cut our losses and run as soon as possible. If we get an even half decent offer we have to seriously consider it.
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The bolded bit is your opinion and your entitled to it but there are plenty of cases of players turning it around after a bad start. As for his value only decreasing, again you're making a prediction based on your current opinion, it's an overly absolute approach imo. I'm not saying it's likely but let's say he comes back from injury and starts smashing them in alongside the other stuff he was doing very well, then the situation changes.

As for how much we'd have to be offered to consider it, as always it's got very little to do with what us fans reckon, it's about how much the manager rates him along with other factors such as how much we gave in the kitty. We simply don't know and whatever we think we aren't well informed enough for our estimates to be of any particular interest tbh. It's about what Ange and the player wants, I appreciate that's a little boring and I'm not trying to shut the discussion down. He was a solid part of a team winning week in week out, there's not a desperate need to sell him, Richy has got a long way to go before being consigned to the Bentley/ N'Dombele heap. I'm not going to change your mind and that's okay but I'd hazard a guess that our manager has a more positive outlook on what the future holds for Richarlison.
 
spurspinter1 said:
The bolded bit is your opinion and your entitled to it but there are plenty of cases of players turning it around after a bad start. As for his value only decreasing, again you're making a prediction based on your current opinion, it's an overly absolute approach imo. I'm not saying it's likely but let's say he comes back from injury and starts smashing them in alongside the other stuff he was doing very well, then the situation changes.

As for how much we'd have to be offered to consider it, as always it's got very little to do with what us fans reckon, it's about how much the manager rates him along with other factors such as how much we gave in the kitty. We simply don't know and whatever we think we aren't well informed enough for our estimates to be of any particular interest tbh. It's about what Ange and the player wants, I appreciate that's a little boring and I'm not trying to shut the discussion down. He was a solid part of a team winning week in week out, there's not a desperate need to sell him, Richy has got a long way to go before being consigned to the Bentley/ N'Dombele heap. I'm not going to change your mind and that's okay but I'd hazard a guess that our manager has a more positive outlook on what the future holds for Richarlison.
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I honestly don't dislike shin, I don't think he's useless or anything I do think he's not suited and also not of the quality required if I'm honest. Regarding my prediction re his value, he's slowly decreasing in value every game he plays. Rival fans are noticing it as well, so it likely the rival managers are also. He does t have a great record to fall back on, he's never been prolific, and deeper stats are rather poor in terms of finishing or fashioning chances. I don't see a world where a player who has been disappointing and is unlikely to ever truly convince in this system is going to increase in value.

I'm just not one for wasting time with players that don't work. Cut your losses, and move them on and bring in someone who does work. I'd rather not wait for his standing in the game to completely drop to the Ndombele/Bentlely level at which point he will have 0 value to us. That's why you have to be smart in terms of player trading and move the player on while they still have value. It's not personal, virtually every player can be improved on so when we have one who lets be honest has been below average why keep him? Why try and force the matter when we can hopefully move him on and bring in someone who does suit the way we play and does have the quality needed?
 
Bishop said:
It sounds like you're basing your views on a tiny sample size. The world cup was 4 games for Brazil how you can use this as some sort of basis for his ability over the 35 he has played for us and the 170 odd he has previously played in the PL confuses me. Are you sure you were watching Richalison at the World Cup and not some other player? 🤣

What's a silly offer? If you're gonna say more than we paid for him then I don't think that's silly, that's crazy. If we keep him his value is only going to keep decreasing and we end up in the same situation we have been in recent years when we literally can't give the player away because their form and performances are poor for us.

Sometimes you have to get out while you're ahead and that time would be now, we need to cut our losses and run as soon as possible. If we get an even half decent offer we have to seriously consider it.
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I would take 20m like we should have done with Ndombele after the first season. Saves you money in the long run.
 
Bishop said:
I honestly don't dislike shin, I don't think he's useless or anything I do think he's not suited and also not of the quality required if I'm honest. Regarding my prediction re his value, he's slowly decreasing in value every game he plays. Rival fans are noticing it as well, so it likely the rival managers are also. He does t have a great record to fall back on, he's never been prolific, and deeper stats are rather poor in terms of finishing or fashioning chances. I don't see a world where a player who has been disappointing and is unlikely to ever truly convince in this system is going to increase in value.

I'm just not one for wasting time with players that don't work. Cut your losses, and move them on and bring in someone who does work. I'd rather not wait for his standing in the game to completely drop to the Ndombele/Bentlely level at which point he will have 0 value to us. That's why you have to be smart in terms of player trading and move the player on while they still have value. It's not personal, virtually every player can be improved on so when we have one who lets be honest has been below average why keep him? Why try and force the matter when we can hopefully move him on and bring in someone who does suit the way we play and does have the quality needed?
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The cutting your losses approach sometimes works and sometimes it doesn't.

They're extreme examples but both Bale and Son both struggled when they first arrived but sticking with them was the right move. Each situation will have it's own nuances and it's not solely about how much time that player has spent at the club.

It might be pedantic but every player's value decreases as time passes due to the nature of contracts but as I say, if Richy manages to hit a vein of form then his potential value would increase. Obviously that's true if every player, but as I say I do think you're just seeing things on how they are, and it may continue that way for sure but there's also the chance of things turning around.

I completely understand why some fans would want to cash in on Richy if we get a decent offer, I'm just not sure we can find someone in January to cover the LW / CF positions like he does but it obviously depends on the budget and who is available.

It'll be interesting to see what happens. I do predict it'll be another PEH situation where he's written off every transfer window by many fans and expected to be sold but sticks around as the manager sees the use in having the player around, time will tell.
 
Chelsea cut their losses with Salah, De Bruyne and Lukaku…

Not suggesting Richarlson will hit those levels, just that it’s worth a bit of patience sometimes.
 
glasgowspur said:
Levy will base his value on him being a member of a team that were top of the league and playing great football that was attractive to all. As he should.
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That sounds a bit like what we did when Eriksen wanted to leave, so instead of getting 80m for him in good time and reinvesting it into even the likes of Maddison and others to strengthen the squad we held on for to long until the point where his value had diminished significantly.

That is not the way to do good business on limited budgets.

Besides Richy was not a key member of the good play he was one of the weakest elements.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
Chelsea cut their losses with Salah, De Bruyne and Lukaku…

Not suggesting Richarlson will hit those levels, just that it’s worth a bit of patience sometimes.
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I'm a bit confused are you seriously comparing their ability levels?

If you know the context you would also know the situations were entirely different. Chelsea had those three at a time when their squads were overloaded with young talent. They had too many quality talents to play so had to make choices as to whom would be successful. That is entirely different to our situation, we don't have an overabundance of quality vying for a starting place. We have a player who isn't performing to the level required and whom we might be able to get decent value from. Selling him is the right approach if we can get a decent figure for him, which we can then reinvest into a better more suited player.
 
Bishop said:
I'm a bit confused are you seriously comparing their ability levels?
Gazza Dazzla said:
Not suggesting Richarlson will hit those levels,
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Clearly not!

If we get a decent offer for Richarlison I’d take and re-invest. I was just pointing out that it’s not always right to sell. Personally I can’t believe Chelsea sold Salah and that he barely got a kick there. He was great at Basel, Fiorentina and Roma in that period.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
Clearly not!

If we get a decent offer for Richarlison I’d take and re-invest. I was just pointing out that it’s not always right to sell. Personally I can’t believe Chelsea sold Salah and that he barely got a kick there. He was great at Basel, Fiorentina and Roma in that period.
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I wanted us to sign Salah from Basel, he was a bloody menace, but Chelsea were in their period of just buying every promising player available and stock piling them. He played a bit but if you remember he used to miss chances constantly it's only really when he went to Roma that his finishing started matching up to the level of the rest of his play.

Re. Richy I'm not suggesting we should take anything for him but if we can get 35-50m for his that's an offer absolutely should accept. It's very unlikely to get better than that.
 
Bishop said:
That sounds a bit like what we did when Eriksen wanted to leave, so instead of getting 80m for him in good time and reinvesting it into even the likes of Maddison and others to strengthen the squad we held on for to long until the point where his value had diminished significantly.

That is not the way to do good business on limited budgets.

Besides Richy was not a key member of the good play he was one of the weakest elements.
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works both ways though, could have let Redknapp sell Bale to Forest for example
 
Baleforce said:
works both ways though, could have let Redknapp sell Bale to Forest for example
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I don’t think anyone foresaw just how good Bale would turn out to be, but he was always highly rated and selling him would have been a big risk. He was still young and raw and there was an element of the unknown with him. We know what Richarlison is and what his strengths and weaknesses are. I’m not desperate for him to leave, but if a good offer comes in for him then we’d be silly not to consider it as we could use the funds to sign a player better suited to how Ange plays.
 
Bishop said:
I wanted us to sign Salah from Basel, he was a bloody menace, but Chelsea were in their period of just buying every promising player available and stock piling them. He played a bit but if you remember he used to miss chances constantly it's only really when he went to Roma that his finishing started matching up to the level of the rest of his play.

Re. Richy I'm not suggesting we should take anything for him but if we can get 35-50m for his that's an offer absolutely should accept. It's very unlikely to get better than that.
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I agree. I don’t see us getting anything near the £60m we paid for him. Maybe the Brazil number 9 thing can entice the likes of the Saudis. Certainly seems to seduce plenty on here :)
 
Baleforce said:
works both ways though, could have let Redknapp sell Bale to Forest for example
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And let's be honest, Eriksen was never in a window for sale at 80m as there was a genuine desire to keep him and also he was never forthcoming on leaving till the value was diminished. Also had we sold him at 80m those moaning about selling him cheap would have moaned we sold him for business only
 
Baleforce said:
works both ways though, could have let Redknapp sell Bale to Forest for example
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Again why are using these weird comparisons and comparing young promising players to the finished article. Richarlison isn't 21, he's not even 24 he's 26 he was bought as the finished article. He is now what he's always going to be. He may have periods of better form, he may have periods of poor form but he is what he is and that's not going to change.

There is no comparison in terms of context to the likes of Bale, Salah, De Bruyne etc etc.

If I were suggesting the sale of the likes of Skipp, Veliz, Sarr or Gil then yes those comparisons would be apt, but no we aren't talking about a playing just making their way into first team football or recently travelled from a different football culture. We are talking about the finished article
 
Grays_1890 said:
And let's be honest, Eriksen was never in a window for sale at 80m as there was a genuine desire to keep him and also he was never forthcoming on leaving till the value was diminished. Also had we sold him at 80m those moaning about selling him cheap would have moaned we sold him for business only
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The amount of vitriol towards Levy when we sold Carrick, Berbatov, Keane, Modric and Bale. 'We're just a selling club'. Levy builds the club up, so that we can pay the going salaries, and keep the Pochettino team together, and people are claiming we should have sold. :rolleyes:
 
Bishop said:
Again why are using these weird comparisons and comparing young promising players to the finished article. Richarlison isn't 21, he's not even 24 he's 26 he was bought as the finished article. He is now what he's always going to be. He may have periods of better form, he may have periods of poor form but he is what he is and that's not going to change.

There is no comparison in terms of context to the likes of Bale, Salah, De Bruyne etc etc.

If I were suggesting the sale of the likes of Skipp, Veliz, Sarr or Gil then yes those comparisons would be apt, but no we aren't talking about a playing just making their way into first team football or recently travelled from a different football culture. We are talking about the finished article
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I was comparing it to the Eriksen situation,

Who brought him into the conversation ;)
 
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