Refugees & Asylum Seekers Informational

[Bedfordspurs]

What the hell is happening with this country
Just seen some horrible footage of I think Rotherham and the asylum hotel
Why is that even fudger in these attacks looks like a knuckle dragger
They should be charged with attempted murder because the intent is to do that level of harm

 

[Grays_1890]

What the hell is happening with this country
Just seen some horrible footage of I think Rotherham and the asylum hotel
Why is that even fudger in these attacks looks like a knuckle dragger
They should be charged with attempted murder because the intent is to do that level of harm

Self fulfilled prophesy too, complain about Police brutality and two tier policing, travel the length of country to attack people of different skin colour and defecate mosque, get full force of law, say "I told you so"

 

[Grays_1890]

What a disgrace this sh1t it, Its the 70s and 80s all over.

All I hear about is this rhetoric that we are so much better than everyone and how we hold people to a higher standard, only for them to burn a hotel with humans inside it and write "fcuk pak1s" on the side of it. At this point we are no better than people we constantly moan about and claim to be fearful of

 

[Grays_1890]

If this don't cheer you up in the gloom then you are dead from the neck up

 

[glasgowspur]

P

If this don't cheer you up in the gloom then you are dead from the neck up

I'd vote for him.

Couldn't help mind you, couple of beers, a curry, kebab on the way home and a skinny latte in the morning.

 

[Grays_1890]

P

I'd vote for him.

Couldn't help mind you, couple of beers, a curry, kebab on the way home and a skinny latte in the morning.

I was impressed with the Curry and then a Kebab TBF haha. But his story about the jobs is one my old man mentioned so much growing up, horrific levels of racism which is showing itself again. Like I say if it wasn't the Muslims then it would be others again IMO

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If this don't cheer you up in the gloom then you are dead from the neck up

Is that the bouncer from reading?
Loved that speach
no mixing of words, just his own truth

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

So I got sent a really interesting video from a friend on that tiktok

Really interesting about immigration and as so many on here say we can never have a serious conversation on it I wondered what their views are on the following video.

It is about 3 minutes long.

TikTok - Make Your Day

vm.tiktok.com

 

[Pádraig Plaisteach]

So I got sent a really interesting video from a friend on that tiktok

Really interesting about immigration and as so many on here say we can never have a serious conversation on it I wondered what their views are on the following video.

It is about 3 minutes long.

TikTok - Make Your Day

vm.tiktok.com

A fake voice of reason peddling the same old anti-immigrant message, dressed up with numbers and a totally bogus concern for the poor. This guy is trying to be a right-wing Hans Rosling, even borrowing his TED techniques, but without any of Rosling's compassion and positivity. This guy's message is basically "Hey, poor people, fudge you! Stay home, we don't give a toss." Any doubt that this guy is a tosser is resolved as soon as he refers to "the elites". 0/10

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Fake voice of reason peddling the same old anti-immigrant message, dressed up with numbers and fake concern for the poor. This guy is trying to be a right wing Hans Rosling, but without Rosling's compassion and positivity.

Are the numbers he states wrong then?

 

[Pádraig Plaisteach]

I CBA to check, but so what if they are right? This character is simply using the numbers to excuse being anti-migrant, but pretending that his motive is a concern for poor countries. Paul Nuttall of UKIP ran the same line over ten years ago, saying that the brightest and best Romanians should stay in Romania. Paul Nuttall does not give two hoots about Romania. He just doesn't want Romanians in the UK.

The speaker in your clip should go and read the poem at the base of the Statue of Liberty.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I CBA to check, but so what if they are right? This character is simply using the numbers to excuse being anti-migrant, but pretending that his motive is a concern for poor countries. Paul Nuttall of UKIP ran the same line over ten years ago, saying that the brightest and best Romanians should stay in Romania. Paul Nuttall does not give two hoots about Romania. He just doesn't want Romanians in the UK.

The speaker in your clip should go and read the poem at the base of the Statue of Liberty.

I guess playing devils advocate perhaps they think it unfeasible to take all the worlds poor and that perhaps focusing on improving living standards in those countries would be more beneficial to them and the US

 

[thfcsteff]

I guess playing devils advocate perhaps they think it unfeasible to take all the worlds poor and that perhaps focusing on improving living standards in those countries would be more beneficial to them and the US

I think Roy Beck's a cop out. How easy to say that. Look, there's 1000 people drowning but we can't save them all, so why bother even saving a few? It's just an anti-immigration argument dressed up in fancy clothes. Do I agree that global living standards should be improved? Absolutely. Will we see it in our lifetimes? Absolutely not. Because the world doesn't give enough of a fudge. Would the average person be prepared to pay an extra few quid for their average goods? Nah. Fed and watered on getting things as cheap as possible. Now, if governments would actually tax corporations and businesses proportionately to their profit margins, well, a sliver of a chance. But they won't. Just like corporations won't pass up the chance top make an extra 150% on their already steroided marked-up profits.

BTW, at no point have I ever seen anyone suggest that a poverty panacea in context of the modern world exists. But what does exist is fighting charlatans like 'Gum-boy' there. He is part of a very, very powerful anti-immigration lobby called NumbersUSA. I can't resist letting you know I think they're disingenuous tossers.

p.s. there's a ton of information out there about Beck and that group. If motivated, check it out and draw your own conclusions.

 

[thfcsteff]

So I got sent a really interesting video from a friend on that tiktok

Really interesting about immigration and as so many on here say we can never have a serious conversation on it I wondered what their views are on the following video.

It is about 3 minutes long.

TikTok - Make Your Day

vm.tiktok.com

I have not seen anybody say that. You're whistling again! Anyone can have a serious conversation on anything as long as they have some knowledge and are open to discussion.

The whole reason this thread exists is to have conversations and also to place some wider facts about refugees and asylum seekers from recognised organisations which have dealt with both for many years.

The original video is just over 6 minutes long, and that bloke is Roy Beck. This is from 2010 and is an updated version of a similar presentation he apparently did in 1996 Here's the full version. It has become a bastion of the US anti-immigration lobby. BTW, as a rule of thumb, it isn't good practice to rely on Tik-Tok for accuracy and transparency IMO. And just to reinforce the point, I think this presentation has more holes than a giant swiss cheese (always was a sharp cheddar man myself)...

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I have not seen anybody say that. You're whistling again! Anyone can have a serious conversation on anything as long as they have some knowledge and are open to discussion.

The whole reason this thread exists is to have conversations and also to place some wider facts about refugees and asylum seekers from recognised organisations which have dealt with both for many years.

The original video is just over 6 minutes long, and that bloke is Roy Beck. This is from 2010 and is an updated version of a similar presentation he apparently did in 1996 Here's the full version. It has become a bastion of the US anti-immigration lobby. BTW, as a rule of thumb, it isn't good practice to rely on Tik-Tok for accuracy and transparency IMO. And just to reinforce the point, I think this presentation has more holes than a giant swiss cheese (always was a sharp cheddar man myself)...

Loads of people say that we can't have a serious conversation on immigration and asylum and till we can do that we can't move on and debate things. That's not me whistling.

So I git sent a video about the sheer numbers living in poverty in the world. I thought it was interesting, the idea that you help people in their own country to rise standards. Also felt that it made a good point about it is also unfair on the millions who can't migrate but are stuck in poverty in the country they are born in.

Rising standards globally would be a noble aim I would have thought. I certainly agree on companies paying tax.

Accusing me of 'whistling again' feels like a level of animosity that makes me wonder whether your prepared to have a grown up debate/discussion on these issues or just come in swinging. Its funny to me that the ones that raise concerns with the level of claims or immigration and the pressure on public services will often be the ones to say we need a mature discussion but come out with thinly veiled anger when someone does just that.

You see steff I can discuss it from my view point rather dispassionately these days as I no where near care enough so rather look at solutions.

For the record the reported move by Rayner to reverse the relatively new policy of new arrivals not being allowed to claim for social housing, is in my view likely to Stoke more anger in those communities where we saw the riots and protests of the last few weeks. That does not effect me, we have no mortgage on our house or the flat we rent out.

It feels like it infuriates some of you from your posts that someone dares to think differently from you. Despite if opinion polls are to be believed that an awful lot of the general public have the same concerns in the UK. Despite like me also agreeing those concerns should never be acted on with violence.

But because I have a difference of opinion you go ahead and accuse me of 'whistling again'

 

[Mikey10]

Loads of people say that we can't have a serious conversation on immigration and asylum and till we can do that we can't move on and debate things. That's not me whistling.

So I git sent a video about the sheer numbers living in poverty in the world. I thought it was interesting, the idea that you help people in their own country to rise standards. Also felt that it made a good point about it is also unfair on the millions who can't migrate but are stuck in poverty in the country they are born in.

Rising standards globally would be a noble aim I would have thought. I certainly agree on companies paying tax.

Accusing me of 'whistling again' feels like a level of animosity that makes me wonder whether your prepared to have a grown up debate/discussion on these issues or just come in swinging. Its funny to me that the ones that raise concerns with the level of claims or immigration and the pressure on public services will often be the ones to say we need a mature discussion but come out with thinly veiled anger when someone does just that.

You see steff I can discuss it from my view point rather dispassionately these days as I no where near care enough so rather look at solutions.

For the record the reported move by Rayner to reverse the relatively new policy of new arrivals not being allowed to claim for social housing, is in my view likely to Stoke more anger in those communities where we saw the riots and protests of the last few weeks. That does not effect me, we have no mortgage on our house or the flat we rent out.

It feels like it infuriates some of you from your posts that someone dares to think differently from you. Despite if opinion polls are to be believed that an awful lot of the general public have the same concerns in the UK. Despite like me also agreeing those concerns should never be acted on with violence.

But because I have a difference of opinion you go ahead and accuse me of 'whistling again'

We certainly need a calm, rational and sensible debate on UK immigration; and the first step on that path probably needs to be accurately measuring how many people enter and leave these islands each year. At present, we don’t really have a clue about those figures.

 

[thfcsteff]

Loads of people say that we can't have a serious conversation on immigration and asylum and till we can do that we can't move on and debate things. That's not me whistling.

So I git sent a video about the sheer numbers living in poverty in the world. I thought it was interesting, the idea that you help people in their own country to rise standards. Also felt that it made a good point about it is also unfair on the millions who can't migrate but are stuck in poverty in the country they are born in.

Rising standards globally would be a noble aim I would have thought. I certainly agree on companies paying tax.

Accusing me of 'whistling again' feels like a level of animosity that makes me wonder whether your prepared to have a grown up debate/discussion on these issues or just come in swinging. Its funny to me that the ones that raise concerns with the level of claims or immigration and the pressure on public services will often be the ones to say we need a mature discussion but come out with thinly veiled anger when someone does just that.

You see steff I can discuss it from my view point rather dispassionately these days as I no where near care enough so rather look at solutions.

For the record the reported move by Rayner to reverse the relatively new policy of new arrivals not being allowed to claim for social housing, is in my view likely to Stoke more anger in those communities where we saw the riots and protests of the last few weeks. That does not effect me, we have no mortgage on our house or the flat we rent out.

It feels like it infuriates some of you from your posts that someone dares to think differently from you. Despite if opinion polls are to be believed that an awful lot of the general public have the same concerns in the UK. Despite like me also agreeing those concerns should never be acted on with violence.

But because I have a difference of opinion you go ahead and accuse me of 'whistling again'

Ben,

You and I have differed on many things on this forum over the years, and we've agreed on others.
I have ignored some things you've said simply because I don't believe you either meant them, or meant them as they came across.
I'm sure you've done the same with me.
Your difference of opinion is not an issue at all.

As I trust you will have noticed, despite my opinions on taking anything from Tik Tok as the final landing point of an opinion on something as important as global immigration, I not only watched the clip you posted, I dug into it to try and learn more about it. I shared my thoughts, and suggested perhaps you'd like to dig deeper and see how you felt. Here's the thing for me - and hopefully for you too. It's serious brick, so it's important to present information which is accurate and given proper context. I've stated my discovery of that video in another post with regards to it being over a decade old. A lot has happened since then, especially in terms of national attitudes towards immigration. The idea of helping people in poorer countries 'raise their own standards' is brilliant, yes, agreed...but how? How does that happen? If the 'Whistling Dave' in that clip is to be believed, it's easy-peasy! Just stop accepting the 'smartest immigrants', block ability to emigrate, and make them stick around at home to help raise their home nations. And what else? Sorry mate, I don't believe he or his association give a fudge about anything other than stopping immigration into (in his case) the US. The welfare of poor nations? Come on! Don't hate me for not buying that ration and not going along with it.

With regards to Britain, of course I appreciate there is dispair and poverty, I also know that the generations left for dead by Thatcherism with regards to shutting down a lot of heavy British industry is a very real problem and needs to be addressed. It is my opinion that a lot of those angry people also need to take some responsibility and realise who their enemy is. And that enemy is not race or religion. It's economics, and the small percentage which keeps manipulating people against each other.I also would agree that a good percentage of the people involved in that stuff are sad, ignorant, bored, and feel hopeless. I would say that a major discussion we need to have is how to offer those people a wider view of the world and a better chance of feeling both good in -and part of- it. I think we'd both agree that if we continue to just yell then we'll drive those specific people further into their already dark corners. And no-one wants that.

 

[thfcsteff]

We certainly need a calm, rational and sensible debate on UK immigration; and the first step on that path probably needs to be accurately measuring how many people enter and leave these islands each year. At present, we don’t really have a clue about those figures.

That debate can only happen (IMO) when people stop weaponising it and trying to use it as the major ill of our society. Poverty is and always has been. But history tells us that the easiest way to fix poverty is to serve up spacegoats, because generally speaking, no-one (tragically) actually cares enough to lay down real solutions.

 

[glasgowspur]

I think Roy Beck's a cop out. How easy to say that. Look, there's 1000 people drowning but we can't save them all, so why bother even saving a few? It's just an anti-immigration argument dressed up in fancy clothes. Do I agree that global living standards should be improved? Absolutely. Will we see it in our lifetimes? Absolutely not. Because the world doesn't give enough of a fudge. Would the average person be prepared to pay an extra few quid for their average goods? Nah. Fed and watered on getting things as cheap as possible. Now, if governments would actually tax corporations and businesses proportionately to their profit margins, well, a sliver of a chance. But they won't. Just like corporations won't pass up the chance top make an extra 150% on their already steroided marked-up profits.

BTW, at no point have I ever seen anyone suggest that a poverty panacea in context of the modern world exists. But what does exist is fighting charlatans like 'Gum-boy' there. He is part of a very, very powerful anti-immigration lobby called NumbersUSA. I can't resist letting you know I think they're disingenuous tossers.

p.s. there's a ton of information out there about Beck and that group. If motivated, check it out and draw your own conclusions.

Tax is a bit of a good look but will it really achieve what you intend?
Corporations will just increase the price or cut costs, ie lower wages to not drop their margins.
Imo a combination of a slight rising of tax but more importantly weaning the public off buying crap they don't really need is a much better solution.
Won't be easy, probably won't be particularly popular at the start but the benefits are worth it.

 

[Pádraig Plaisteach]

I guess playing devils advocate perhaps they think it unfeasible to take all the worlds poor and that perhaps focusing on improving living standards in those countries would be more beneficial to them and the US

Nobody suggests that everyone in country A gets up and moves to country B. The bloke has nothing to offer on the subject of making poor countries un-poor. His only message is "don't come here, foreigners!"


You may have been taught by bad faith actors such as Farage and the right wing media to fear and hate migrants. Doing that distracts you from the real causes of the problems faced by the UK. Brexit, lack of investment, poor education and lack of skills, failing infrastructure, aging population, and so on. Relatively small numbers of desperate people arriving by boat have nothing to do with all of that. People going to mosques have nothing to do with that. The threat to the nation comes not from new arrivals or changes in culture, but from decades of Neo Liberal policies and untrammeled Vulture Capitalism.