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Redknapp

Wriggly said:
Cant wait, I'll not be doing one Iota of work tomorrow and will be celebrating getting rid of this clueless classless taco. It had better happen!
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My staff and my boss are all off so I'll be doing exactly the same. Might call an EGM of the ex-pat yids to raise a glass or two at lunchtime.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Good enough to take this club forward, to get the most out of the squad, to develop the team and club...

Good enough to be our manager, basically. In as much as I think thats what a manager is responsible for.

I agree that Harrys strength is in setting up a balanced side and letting them play, though as I have discussed with BOL - I dont think thats top quality management - I think its flawed. Particularly in as much as while things are good its great, yet when things are bad it offers you no means to dig yourself out of a hole.

I think tactically Redknapp is often left wanting, not only in an absence of an inbuilt system of play, but also in reacting to things that arent working.

I also think this lack of direction leads to a mish-mash transfer policy.

I like Harry, I really do. He makes me laugh, he tells a fantastic story and can be really engaging. I think he has done extremely well with us to date.

However, I also think there is more to come from this side (or the club in its current situation), and I dont think he has the ability to extract it from the set up.

Thats where my wanting a new man stems from, not from the idea Harry is rubbish, just the idea that he isnt good enough to take us on the next stages.

A new manager can build upon what Harry has done these last few seasons and create something special IMHO. (similar to the comment often made on Rodgers benefiting from Martinez' work at Swansea)
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A good post, I don't think I disagree with anything. Except that I don't particularly 'like' Harry in that sense of the word... I don't necessarily dislike him, but I don't feel the same warmth towards him as I did towards Jol, for example, or that I do towards Martinez (even though he has nothing to do with Spurs!)

I thought your discussion with BoL regarding the two opposing styles of management was interesting. I agree that letting players play with freedom can be great when things are going well, and can certainly play a part in them going well in the first place, but that when things are going badly the players actually need some direction and discipline. Saying that, I do think that people might underestimate the benefit of Harry's approach, and are being overly-critical of it because of our poor run (much of which was due to other factors IMO). And that they might underestimate the negative aspects of playing under someone with a much more strict and 'scientific' approach to the game.

Ultimately I think the key for any manager is probably to find the right balance between the two.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Harry constantly listens to other people, I'd say that's one of the things that's meant he's been able to stay at the top of the game as long as he has. He may not go out doing all the studying like Rodgers, but he seems more than willing to take on the opinions of the people that do, be that his coaches, players, or friends. Sometimes he doesn't listen to them but sometimes he does. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. But I think he does listen.

I'd be fascinated to know your source on this.

So that point of view is that it's not neccesarily down to his ability, it's down to his character. Which is fair enough, you can dislike him for it (I certainly wish he would have come and and said something either way on England for example, because there was always the 'what if he doesn't get it?' scenario that he didn't seem to account for, and it worked out to his detriment) but it doesn't actually make him a good or bad manager. His character seems to get on with players, so in that case it's a good trait to have from a professional point of view.

Again, he's not consistent, even with his 'character'! Where was he for two or three months? Where was he for two or three months Jan 2011? And where is he now? Where's his fighting talk? Where's his bravado? Where's his assuredness? Harry's 'character' is two-fold, but its always about Harry first, that's my big problem.

So I think why AS asks if people only want him out because of a 9 game spell, is because really there haven't been any actual football management related issues thrown up outside of that. I'd bet that 98% of people would not be saying 'Harry is a tactical clutz, I don't like how he gives the players freedom to express themselves' when we have just won our 9th game in a row in the league. (Nayim may be the 2% :) ) and of course you wouldn't expect it, it would be ridiculous. But the fact is, Redknapp is the same manager during the good run as he is during the bad run. Whatever he does to prepare the team for the good run is exactly what he does for the bad run. And no-one is really picking out the times that he was mucking it up during the good run, it is only during that 9 game spell, where we threw away the lead. Well yeah we did, and I don't think I'll personally ever get over it (I still think I'm in a state of shock, because I was absolutely buzzing in January at the thought of watching Spurs) but we also got to 13 points ahead of Arsenal in the first place.

I addressed this mate, IMHO, when the season gets close to the end you need some extra tricks in your locker. Harry needed to have some specific plan Bs, he needed to have worked out system's, weak points and vulnerable players whom we could target on the pitch when we played some of our more difficult sides again.



So what has he actually done wrong? Let's ignore the 'he knows nothing about tactics/just tells the players to run around a bit' type arguments because they are clearly rubbish, and if everyone could agree that the debate would be much better for it. It's schoolchildren stuff. Let's get to the meat of the issues.



Well, in the greater sense that Harry Redknapp has been in this game for 40+ years as a professional, and I haven't, then yes, it DOES sound slightly absurd to say he knows nothing about tactics. But what's even more absurd, is when people can clearly see things happening/not happening, they don't get addressed (repeatedly, and we keep on slumping. If we take your point as the default truth, then at the very least, he has been negligent.


Is it the letting Bale roam? Fair enough. It worked at Norwich away, but after that it didn't. It's understandable that Harry wanted to mix it up because people were beginning to figure out Bale, so he wanted him to roam, but maybe the best way would have been to keep shape, and use the space to let someone else have more impact, even if it meant Bale was subdued he'd still be doing a good job. It's an experiment that over all probably didn't work out. Sackable offence because of it though? Not really.

I wanted to see Bale come inside sometimes to create space for others/himself, but what I would've expected was the manager to issue some very specific guidelines about easing into this tactic and learning it in small doses, not wandering around the middle whenever he got frustrated (QPR away). Bale needs top level coaching and top level managing to become the next level player he could. Right now, with Harry as manager, I'd say he will not grow as a player, at best he will maintain. If he went to Barca or Real, he'd become phenomenal.


<<Is it letting a 2-0 lead slip in the NLD? Ok, well first of all he did try and tighten it up after half time, but our players were mentally gone. I'd say the cause of that defeat was a clearly hurt King being forced to play, as well as simply poor psychology on the players part. I think at 2-0 up, subconsciously they switched off, not that they wanted to. I'm sure someone will say 'Harry should have motivated them better' but again it's not really a valid debate when every single top manager in the world has been on the end of a thrashing. He could have done something else sure, but again, in isolation, not really a sackable offense.>>

I've been over this game mate, many times. In short. Don't go the effeminates with 4-4-2, go with a FIRM 4-5-1 and be patient. Don't allow players to be so lethargic, get them in the right frame of mind. Don't chicken out of shuffling things t 2-0 when you see the game has swung in momentum, immediately switch to 4-5-1 and make a change.The big managers would regardless of the time.



What else is there? Calling the fans 'they' instead of 'we'? Couldn't care less, doesn't impact his ability as a manager. Is it not winning at Villa? (Again, something that will probably forever frustrate me, but they score a fluke and we play a half with ten men). Is it a failure to rotate? Argument to say we could have done it more, but we also didn't have to play our first team in Europe and therefore the players should have been able to handle one game a week.

It should never have come to that match. That it did, that we got an extra chance and he STILL couldn't find a way to make sure we grasped it, will forever haunt him.

Anything else? I'm not saying he's made no mistakes. But to say 'he made mistakes' and use it in a debate is also pointless, because every manager does. There's no point using the fact that he didn't make every decision absolutely perfectly against him. I genuinely can't think of much else. I think the speculation killed us and effected us from a psychological perspective. I think it could have been handled better. But I've yet to see any real, sackable things that he's done. He was the same manager in the 9 game poor run as he was during the 9 game winning run.

The way he has operated, some of the players he has not been able to pull the trigger on, the way he has not handled the squad the last two winters/springs and the fact he has not learnt from his mistakes are all problems for me - big ones. Again, if he were to take SOME responsibility it'd be something...but curiously, nothing. He's a master of spin. I'll leave it at that mate...
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To be fair we went 2-0 up playing 4-4-2, and neither of their first half goals had anything to do with us playing 4-4-2 I would say. One was a great finish from the best striker in the league from outside of the area with us defending deep and in numbers. The other was a great header from their right-back, again when we were defending deep and in numbers. Bale just wasn't tight enough (he was actually too deep, so it wasn't as if we were playing too attacking and open).
 
Gutter Boy said:
My staff and my boss are all off so I'll be doing exactly the same. Might call an EGM of the ex-pat yids to raise a glass or two at lunchtime.
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I dont know why you dislike Redknapp so much, he actually does so many of the things you call for. Playing Rafa with Ade is one of them (a lot of top managers would (or have) ditch VDV for the stuff he doesnt do, rather than HR appreciating him for what he does do), just getting Ade to the club is all down the HR - if he goes then Adebayor will not play for Spurs again.
 
And its embarrassing reading posts from people who really do have no clue about football, talking about formations and tactics.

If losing 5-2 was a regular thing, then have a go at Harry for being poor tactically. But HR transformed the team and it wasnt down to being mates with the players, it was through good organisation and tactical awareness.

And we went 2 down the season before and beat Arsenal at their ground. Selective memory from the idiots again. Are you lot going to say Wenger is a brick manager as well?

Judge harry over any period of time at spurs and he has been a great success. Select certain games to go with your agenda and you could make a case for Mourinho getting the sack at Madrid.
 
You actually think Redknapp intents to go to the UAE?
Its just a not too subtle attempt by Redknapp to get a better contract in the contract negotiations that are ongoing.
 
Apparently the rumour of a Dubai/UAE job offer is on BBC gossip. If he goes and we go after someone else, who would we be happy with ? Martinez (I think that door's closed by whelan), lambert (hasn't that been closed by Norwich refusing his resignation ?), Pep (ok he perhaps would try the chavs), an ex player like chris (seems far too nice), Poyet ..... hmmm now there's an interesting fella
 
elltrev said:
To be fair we went 2-0 up playing 4-4-2, and neither of their first half goals had anything to do with us playing 4-4-2 I would say. One was a great finish from the best striker in the league from outside of the area with us defending deep and in numbers. The other was a great header from their right-back, again when we were defending deep and in numbers. Bale just wasn't tight enough (he was actually too deep, so it wasn't as if we were playing too attacking and open).
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Sorry mate, not to be argumentative, but I have to take you up on this. The following is IMHO obviously BUT consider that Harry admitted in one post-match report that after 30 mins and 2-0 up he SAW we were losing the midfield and yet made the decision to try and "hang on" until half-time...unforgivable!!!!! TOP men make TOUGH decisions, however early in the game. Anyway...

We should NEVER have gone there playing 4-4-2 against their 4-3-3. It was foolish. In order for it to work, our forwards would've needed to press very very high and our midfield would've needed to keep strict shape/essentially fall into a diamond with with Modric playing the top/pressing aggressively behind the strikers, and Parker playing as the holding player. Even then, against Arteta, Benayoun and Song, you'd still be outnumbered centrally, thus it would be vital for the wide players to keep their shape and repel the full-backs coming on in support.

After 10 minutes it was very, very clear that we were losing the midfield. Yes, we were one up, but we were not holding the ball well enough. Ade and Saha started to drop off, thus the whole side shifted 10 yards deeper, inviting pressure. Kranjcar was increasingly unable to offer anything on the right, Bale started wandering into the middle looking for the ball and it was getting wonky. We got a break, got the pen via a Bale gallop, went 2 up and should've immediately brought Saha off and gone to 5 in the middle (Sandro on, Luka the furthest forward in a "Rafa-esque" role, Parker playing as the HOLDING player with Sandro the midfield runner).

We continued to get pressed deeper and deeper, largely because we didn't start 4-5-1. Had we done so, there would've been a different pace and feel to the game, instead we went there high on the Newcash game and went for the shoot-out. Of course that sounds great, but in reality, we needed to be more professional. You could see the struggles the team were having with 4-4-2 as the half wore on, and both their first-half goals were (IMHO) down to a lack of proper shape and leadership which came about from playing too deep. Even after Sagna's goal, Harry should've made a change to hold at 2-1 until HT.

He did make changes in the second-half, but alas, he tried to match their 4-3-3 when 4-5-1 and the swift verbal reminder/gonading that this was a NEW GAME and that we only needed to win the second-half one-nil might've seen us regain composure and play like the side we can be. Instead of 4-5-1 and Sandro or Parker sitting in front of King and protecting him, we leave him exposed in a horrific 4-3-3 with an unfit Rafa.

Finally, after all that, with the game at what, 4 or 5-2 and Parker on a yellow, he fudging leaves him ON! It was obvious he was tiring, Mr Magoo could see it, take him OFF, save him and regroup for United at home. Instead, the tired Parker gets a second yellow in the closing stages of a game already lot, and we are thus heavily impacted for the following week against Man Utd when Parker "could've" been the difference.

If anyone is STILL awake after all that, then there is how he fudged up the derby. Did he admit any culpability? No. Only that he 'felt it was happening' during the game, yet he did nothing!!!!!!!!

I have still to hear him discuss that game in any tactical sense. I wonder why.

Again mate, sorry if this seems a bit edgy, whenever I remember this game it's like a bad situation you saw happening, were screaming about but the vocal chords had been snipped thus no-one could hear you...
 
Golfball said:
And its embarrassing reading posts from people who really do have no clue about football, talking about formations and tactics.

If losing 5-2 was a regular thing, then have a go at Harry for being poor tactically. But HR transformed the team and it wasnt down to being mates with the players, it was through good organisation and tactical awareness.

And we went 2 down the season before and beat Arsenal at their ground. Selective memory from the idiots again. Are you lot going to say Wenger is a brick manager as well?

Judge harry over any period of time at spurs and he has been a great success. Select certain games to go with your agenda and you could make a case for Mourinho getting the sack at Madrid.
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Tell you what, pick apart what I said re: the arsenal match, and educate me. Seriously mate, it's a discussion board so help me out here...
 
indospurs said:
Apparently the rumour of a Dubai/UAE job offer is on BBC gossip. If he goes and we go after someone else, who would we be happy with ? Martinez (I think that door's closed by whelan), lambert (hasn't that been closed by Norwich refusing his resignation ?), Pep (ok he perhaps would try the chavs), an ex player like chris (seems far too nice), Poyet ..... hmmm now there's an interesting fella
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AVB or van Gaal.

Martinez, Deschamps, de Boer, Capello and Ancelotti as outsiders.

Think we'll get a DoF as well - hopefully someone like Begiristain or Larini.


Any of those would make me happy. Moyes would not.
 
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