Ratings v Sunderland

[elltrev]

Watch him more closely then. Under pressure or not, Parker is almost always available for a short pass in the midfield.

But as I said before, when not under pressure that is not necessarily a good thing, and it's certainly not a difficult thing. If the other team is just sitting back, virtually anyone can move to within 5 yards of a teammate and then play a simple, cautious pass to a nearby player. I wouldn't call that superb movement. If his distribution was more positive, like Luka's, then it might be useful. But it's not. That's why IMO we need Luka (or even Livermore) to play deeper alongside Parker, and then VDV / Niko to play centrally ahead of them.

 

[africanspurs]

I don't think it's fair to rate Saha and Defoe individually coming on that late, but when we did change to 4-4-2 straight out, we completely lost any momentum and control over the midfield we may have had.

I don't know if it's Defoe and Saha failing to work hard enough or whether it's the team as a whole better suited to an uneven numbered midfield, but 4-4-2 straight out makes us look silly each time we use it. I suspect the former. IMHO the need to do MUCH more pressing and the need to move MUCH more off the ball when we break play. Both of them.

short memory then of this season i take it

 

[DanishWhite]

Saha and Defoe reminds me of Pav and Defoe. Two strikers, both wanting to be in very advanced positions, neither player great at link-up play although Saha does have a bit of height and can work as a target man to a half way decent degree. If you create chances they will score, but you won't create as many chances as when you have someone like Ade or VdV in there.

4-4-2 with Ade and Saha or Ade and Defoe has not made us look silly imo.

Well, that's my opinion. I judge on what I see out there on the field.

And I see us playing not very well each and every time we commit to 2 out and out strikers on the ball. Correct me if wrong, but I can't recall the last time we played really well like that, nevermind the results. I am talking about playing well.

 

[africanspurs]

i'm surprised at the number of well versed posters in this thread that are okay with the idea of a CM (not DM or holder) in a 442 or 4411 that should be running forward beyond the defensive back line as often as it appears to be indicated.

i'd like an example of someone who does that in a 442 in todays game, and just to fair.....in football over the past 15 years. a player in central midfield that regularly curbs their movement forward beyond the defensive lines in a 442.

i'm struggling to think of one but chances are that i am very wrong

 

[DanishWhite]

Our strikers have a really difficult job, our build up is very slow, teams put men behind the ball and we end up passing about in front of them for 1/2 hour, they dont defend a high line because when the game gets stretched we are excellent, our central midfield players ( any of them) to not play the ball quickly over the top so that our strikers can make runs, the game is normally too compressed, we have missed Tom enormously in this respect, we cant go down the sides because the opposing teams double up and always have men behind the ball, the answer is for our creative central players VDV and Modric to carry the ball and commit the oppositions players, they dont do this, Modric in fact plays so deep its a joke, why play both Sandro and Parker when Modric is so deep anyway, also I do think that Modric is underated defensively.

You can't blame it on the others. In particular Defoe and Saha move so little off the ball it's ridiculous. There were times on saturday when the ball broke for us and they just fudging stood there and watched, none of theme went wide, went deep or went on a vertical run to make an option for the ballkeeper. In fact, they did nothing at all. Just stood/walked there.

I am amused about the slagging for e.g. Berbatov and Kanoute. They'd walk around for half games, BUT when play broke and we got the ball, they'd be off looking for space in an instant.

To be fair, Ade is sometimes very, very slow at finding space too. And when VdV only every looks for space deep, that makes us one dimensional.

There are only every two sollutions. Either our midfielders starting beating defenders dribbling the ball OR our strikers/forwards/whatever start moving their arses. Preferably both.

 

[braineclipse]

Well, that's my opinion. I judge on what I see out there on the field.

And I see us playing not very well each and every time we commit to 2 out and out strikers on the ball. Correct me if wrong, but I can't recall the last time we played really well like that, nevermind the results. I am talking about playing well.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine game?

For me several of Ade's best games has been when he's been alongside another striker and dropped deep to link-up play and drift around a bit.

 

[africanspurs]

Saudi Sportswashing Machine game?

For me several of Ade's best games has been when he's been alongside another striker and dropped deep to link-up play and drift around a bit.

well said. people's memory can be funny during a bad run of games. didnt do too badly when we were away to west brom, think we played two away to wolves, we played two at home to liverpool (not a game to sneeze at imo)

 

[elltrev]

i'm surprised at the number of well versed posters in this thread that are okay with the idea of a CM (not DM or holder) in a 442 or 4411 that should be running forward beyond the defensive back line as often as it appears to be indicated.

i'd like an example of someone who does that in a 442 in todays game, and just to fair.....in football over the past 15 years. a player in central midfield that regularly curbs their movement forward beyond the defensive lines in a 442.

i'm struggling to think of one but chances are that i am very wrong

Poyer for Spurs?

Still, I totally agree with you. In today's game, I think the best system is to have two CMs - one more of a protector, one more of a distributor - who both tend not to venture forward ... the link between midfield and attack can come from a 'deep forward' (ala VDV, Rooney etc) and the wide attacking players drifitng inside, and the width can come from one or both full-backs and one or both wide players. Basically your beloved wonky!

 

[DanishWhite]

Saudi Sportswashing Machine game?

For me several of Ade's best games has been when he's been alongside another striker and dropped deep to link-up play and drift around a bit.

Well, the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game was a decent performance but a great result, in particular seeing their present form. In fact, that was the best game we played all spring.

I don't think Ade's better drifting anywhere but wide occasionally. He'd be a monster if he learned to stick to the opposition backline, because he can match any defender for physique and pace, some even with the ball at feet. We ought to be giving him way more vertical passes on the deck to run onto. Same with Lennon and Bale. The three of them should be bombarded with deep, vertical passes all game. No back 4 in this league can match them for speed. That would demand however, that Bale and Lennon learned to play as proper wingers in the meaning of wide forwards. And I doubt the can or want to.

Someone called for Huddlestone. I concur.

 

[braineclipse]

i'm surprised at the number of well versed posters in this thread that are okay with the idea of a CM (not DM or holder) in a 442 or 4411 that should be running forward beyond the defensive back line as often as it appears to be indicated.

i'd like an example of someone who does that in a 442 in todays game, and just to fair.....in football over the past 15 years. a player in central midfield that regularly curbs their movement forward beyond the defensive lines in a 442.

i'm struggling to think of one but chances are that i am very wrong

I agree with you. But what exactly in this thread was it that made you make this point?

 

[africanspurs]

I agree with you. But what exactly in this thread was it that made you make this point?

people talking about modric's movement.

whats wrong with it for a midfield playmaker?

why is he supposed to be galivanting forward , making runs beyond the defensive line etc etc?

it seems like people are all in agreement that his forward movement and his creativity is something that he's lacking. i dont get it personally.

 

[africanspurs]

Poyer for Spurs?

Still, I totally agree with you. In today's game, I think the best system is to have two CMs - one more of a protector, one more of a distributor - who both tend not to venture forward ... the link between midfield and attack can come from a 'deep forward' (ala VDV, Rooney etc) and the wide attacking players drifitng inside, and the width can come from one or both full-backs and one or both wide players. Basically your beloved wonky!

nope. could have sworn that we played something like 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 when poyet was just running in behind cavalier like. if we played 442 with poyet consistently then i need reminder of who the strikers were and what the midfield looked like

 

[DanishWhite]

people talking about modric's movement.

whats wrong with it for a midfield playmaker?

why is he supposed to be galivanting forward , making runs beyond the defensive line etc etc?

it seems like people are all in agreement that his forward movement and his creativity is something that he's lacking. i dont get it personally.

The problem is when he plays as one of two midfielders in a 4-4-2 or even as one of 2 deep midfielders in a 4-3-3. It simply looks like he plays to deep and thus he can't dribble, make runs and shoot that much, simply because he spends most game deep.

At least that's how I understand the problem presented by other posters.

It's a deeprunning issue. It has to do with how one percieves Luka as a player. Is he the Xavi Alonso or is he the (young) Paul Scholes ?

To be honest I am undecided, but I often see him making a farely rare foray around the opposition box and think "what the hell is he doing tracking runners in front of our box?"

Yeah yeah, I know he's the playmaking fulcrum and all that, but I can understand why other posters see it as a problem.

 

[bankrupt]

Another thing Parker doesn't get enough credit for is he is also very good at completing a pass whilst under pressure from an opposition player.

Frequently, he invites that pressure on himself by dwelling on the ball, or doing that weird thing where he pirouettes round the ball under no pressure.

 

[DanishWhite]

E.g. if we sold him to Utd (!) He'd play in front of Carrick presumeably who compared to Parker and Sandro is VERY static (or disciplined!) keeping his position and Luka would roam much more, having more freedom and time to find Space.

We probably all say "hey, why didn't we play him like that?" . And it'd be a fair question too.

Well, why don't we ? Honestly.

 

[DanishWhite]

Frequently, he invites that pressure on himself by dwelling on the ball, or doing that weird thing where he pirouettes round the ball under no pressure.

Yup.

He is poison to our quick passing game, because the ball stops with him ever so often. All good work shifting positions and moving markers around goes wastee.

 

[braineclipse]

people talking about modric's movement.

whats wrong with it for a midfield playmaker?

why is he supposed to be galivanting forward , making runs beyond the defensive line etc etc?

it seems like people are all in agreement that his forward movement and his creativity is something that he's lacking. i dont get it personally.

Ah yes. And I still agree of course.

Although I think when he is asked to play almost a supporting strike role in a 4-2-3-1 looking formation he is far from as classy as when he's playing as the midfield playmaker he (in my opinion) should be played in.

 

[totman]

Yup.

He is poison to our quick passing game, because the ball stops with him ever so often. All good work shifting positions and moving markers around goes wastee.

Parker? Poison to our quick passing game?

The same Parker that was player of the month for about three months when we played our best football in decades and lost one game between the beginning of Septmber and Christmas?

I think you need a new spacegoat.

Our passing game has dipped with the obvious fatigue to certain players over the past months (Parker included), and the constant chopping and changing of formations and line ups, including the recent inclusion of Sandro, Parker and Modric in the middle.

 

[DanishWhite]

Parker? Poison to our quick passing game?

The same Parker that was player of the month for about three months when we played our best football in decades and lost one game between the beginning of Septmber and Christmas?

I think you need a new spacegoat.

Our passing game has dipped with the obvious fatigue to certain players over the past months (Parker included), and the constant chopping and changing of formations and line ups, including the recent inclusion of Sandro, Parker and Modric in the middle.

Please read what I write rather that rant about what you think I wrote.

All I said was that he was poison to our QUICK passing game, because he is slow on the ball. I didn't say he wasn't a good player overall or a worthy player of the month winner or whatever.

Jeez.

 

[totman]

You wrote he is poison to our quick game, so I pointed out we played our best football for decades, which was unbelievably quick, with Parker in the middle playing to PL player of the month standard.

Jeez