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Putin & Russia

Lilbaz said:
The missiles can be detected by radar and shot down. The russian ones can't.
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they might shoot down 25/30%, and that would be a massively successful missile shield, way ahead of what either the US or Russia are considered to have

it's kind of irrelevant anyway, if just one goes off, we are all fudged anyway
 
Baleforce said:
If there is actually a RN boat at sea at the minute.

I'm sure the French Navy is in far better state.
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I believe we always have a Sub out in the sea north of Scotland somewhere. There was a documentary on the bbc the other year I think.

Edit: was channel 5
 
scaramanga said:
They won't get any sanctions that will cripple them until Germany stops buying their gas (which they won't).

For every drop in value of their currency, oil and gas increase in price. They're absolutely fine and will be until Germany stops posing and does something of substance.
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There is effectively an embargo on oil already. No one is buying it as they don't expect it to be delivered.
 
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braineclipse said:
Again, risk of further escalation is where we disagree.

I notice I don't know enough about the strength of the Russian military to have strong opinions on likely ways this will go next.
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Wasn't a risk of escalation why we didn't sign Ukraine up in advance of an attack?

That didn't work out too well for them or for us right now.
 
scaramanga said:
Wasn't a risk of escalation why we didn't sign Ukraine up in advance of an attack?

That didn't work out too well for them or for us right now.
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N=1. No control group. Post apocalyptic mushroom shrouded world with no glory-glory forum may have been the outcome.

Ok, that's obviously not serious. But we have no idea of knowing what the outcome would have been of trying to do that. May have been better, may have been worse. Putin has made it clear that he would rather invade Ukraine than have them as NATO members. I think accelerating that process would have seen an invasion and even more of an excuse for Putin to propagandize.
 
Lilbaz said:
You realise russia have these?

https://www.military.com/equipment/weapons/why-russias-hypersonic-missiles-cant-be-seen-radar.html

It's possible they could nuke us without retaliation. Putin hinted at it in a meeting with trump. Telling him that russia had them. Trump the idiot he is, said "well we'll get them soon too".
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Obviously I have no evidence but I'm sure the US will have some pretty advanced tech of their own which people don't know about yet. If it came to a war I'm sure the US have enough firepower to destroy Russia if they wanted too - dam well should the amount they spend on it per year.
 
braineclipse said:
N=1. No control group. Post apocalyptic mushroom shrouded world with no glory-glory forum may have been the outcome.

Ok, that's obviously not serious. But we have no idea of knowing what the outcome would have been of trying to do that. May have been better, may have been worse. Putin has made it clear that he would rather invade Ukraine than have them as NATO members. I think accelerating that process would have seen an invasion and even more of an excuse for Putin to propagandize.
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He invaded them anyway, the only additional risk is the nuclear one.

If we're letting him get away with whatever he likes just in case he's mad enough to nuke us all then there has to be a limit. Mine falls short of allowing him to shell thousands of civilians every day.
 
Baleforce said:
If there is actually a RN boat at sea at the minute.

I'm sure the French Navy is in far better state.
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I think we have 4 nuclear subs. 2 are always at sea somewhere in the world (they are supposed to be undetectable, so they could in theory be sat at the bottom of St Petersburg and Vladivostok harbours), 1 is kept in reserve and 1 is in maintenance. I think that's how they are managed, at least before the Trident Renewal a few years back and however that changed things.
 
braineclipse said:
I'm yet to see anyone I would see as an expert agree with you on this point. Maybe I'm just not paying enough attention to that side of this?

Been quite a few reports/opinions that the sanctions will have severe effect over time.
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I have a friend who is a professor, and her doctorate was a publication on economic sanctions. Long story short, they don't work. No regime has ever altered it's politic because of economic sanctions. The top of the pyramid always find ways to get money in and out. It's the general population that suffer from it.
Economic sanctions are easy to implement, but serve as little more than showing that "at least we do something".
 
Kandi1977 said:
I have a friend who is a professor, and her doctorate was a publication on economic sanctions. Long story short, they don't work. No regime has ever altered it's politic because of economic sanctions. The top of the pyramid always find ways to get money in and out. It's the general population that suffer from it.
Economic sanctions are easy to implement, but serve as little more than showing that "at least we do something".
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I obviously don't know anything compared to a professor.

But this is the first time economic sanctions* have been used in this way in the modern world where everything happens digitally.

Yes, it will hit the general public in Russia first, but how long will they put up with being cut off from civilisation?

*not just official global banking system ones, companies like Visa, Apple and Microsoft pulling out has a major bearing too
 
Baleforce said:
I obviously don't know anything compared to a professor.

But this is the first time economic sanctions* have been used in this way in the modern world where everything happens digitally.

Yes, it will hit the general public in Russia first, but how long will they put up with being cut off from civilisation?

*not just official global banking system ones, companies like Visa, Apple and Microsoft pulling out has a major bearing too
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Iran are still trying to build nuclear weapons, North Korea is still fudging mental and Venezuela has held out long enough to get a nice oil deal with the US.

Not exactly the same, but not far off.
 
scaramanga said:
Iran are still trying to build nuclear weapons, North Korea is still fudging mental and Venezuela has held out long enough to get a nice oil deal with the US.

Not exactly the same, but not far off.
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Yeah, but they haven't had 20 years of European capitalism, they don't know what they are missing.

Its simplistic, but I'd lose my brick and overthrow the govt if I lost access to craft beer, Disney+ and iPhones.
 
Baleforce said:
Yeah, but they haven't had 20 years of European capitalism, they don't know what they are missing.

Its simplistic, but I'd lose my brick and overthrow the govt if I lost access to craft beer, Disney+ and iPhones.
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I was thinking this today when Netflix announced they were switching off in Russia lol. Might just be enough for the people to risk protesting about!
 
dingdongo said:
I was thinking this today when Netflix announced they were switching off in Russia lol. Might just be enough for the people to risk protesting about!
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It's not for nothing, their quality of life is being hammered for no benefit to anything other than their lunatic uncle's ego.
 
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