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Putin & Russia

SpurMeUp said:
It is a matter of priority, isn't it. The party in government has been pretty extensively funded by Russian born oligarchs over the past couple of decades, and goodness knows what other deals have taken place along the lines of what was offered to Aaron Banks using offshore concerns. That was only known because someone had access to Banks emails. It is quite viable that various people in the UK establishment have benifited from association with Russian concerns. Maybe these concerns could leak compromising information and retaliate. If that was the case, what would be the best way to manage the situation so you look like you’re doing something while you’re not actually doing much?
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This. All the way. I think there is a similar situation in the US where the previous bloke chained the country in the same way.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I guess what is interesting here is that socially accepted norms evolve. Laws often evolve to back up what is acceptable today. For example, things that the police and courts would not bother with pre-metoo, are now taken extremely seriously, and the full weight of the law is applied to prosecute. The same laws were not applied with such vigor previously. Working with slightly dodgy Russians wasn't taboo as it is today. Plenty of people during the naughties worked with the new found Russian establishment with no concerns. It was initially seen as the westernisation of Russia. Few thought to question it. Few considered that former state-owned enterprises had really been pilfered by an elite.
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^^ Absolutely. Society and technology have evolved very quickly alongside the internet.

The whole creation of and purpose of the oligarchy is a mystery to me. Are they Russian state actors or are they autonomous businessmen. Many of them appear to have been favoured with incredible terms so what was the quid pro quo?
 
johnola said:
^^ Absolutely. Society and technology have evolved very quickly alongside the internet.

The whole creation of and purpose of the oligarchy is a mystery to me. Are they Russian state actors or are they autonomous businessmen. Many of them appear to have been favoured with incredible terms so what was the quid pro quo?
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They are profiteers of their country through what would be illegal means in most society’s
They robbed the state of oil and other minerals TBF they squired favourably, to sell to the world
 
johnola said:
^^ Absolutely. Society and technology have evolved very quickly alongside the internet.

The whole creation of and purpose of the oligarchy is a mystery to me. Are they Russian state actors or are they autonomous businessmen. Many of them appear to have been favoured with incredible terms so what was the quid pro quo?
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They are gangsters.
 
Apparently spreading false information about the Russian military is now punishable by up to 15 years in prison. Basically, anyone telling the truth or even calling it a war will now be locked up.
 
More and more countries now recommending to NATO that they "consider all options" in Ukraine.

Hopefully more will join soon and increase the pressure.
 
Meanwhile, loads of the missiles Germany sent are 35 years old and can't be used. Great ploy to save themselves the scrappage fee...
 
Jordinho said:
Yeah, this doesn't end until Putin is removed from power along with all his cronies. How to achieve that is the million dollar question though.
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Yeah, I think he may have painted himself into a corner. Will be difficult to back down and getting a for him acceptable outcome looks very difficult to achieve.

Still think this is likely to get a lot worse before it gets better because that "how" question has very few short term realistic answers.
 
braineclipse said:
Yeah, I think he may have painted himself into a corner. Will be difficult to back down and getting a for him acceptable outcome looks very difficult to achieve.

Still think this is likely to get a lot worse before it gets better because that "how" question has very few short term realistic answers.
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He's going to carry on occupying more and more land, thinking it gives him leverage in negotiations, but the only truly acceptable outcome for the rest of Europe is for Ukraine to get everything back, Putin to be removed, his party ceasing to exist and Russia becoming a real democracy. On top of that they should be giving up most, if not all, of their nuclear weapons.
 
Jordinho said:
He's going to carry on occupying more and more land, thinking it gives him leverage in negotiations, but the only truly acceptable outcome for the rest of Europe is for Ukraine to get everything back, Putin to be removed, his party ceasing to exist and Russia becoming a real democracy. On top of that they should be giving up most, if not all, of their nuclear weapons.
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He may or may not think that there's a good outcome here for him by occupying more land to gain leverage in negotiations.

Either is pretty much just as terrifying to me at least.
 
Jordinho said:
He's going to carry on occupying more and more land, thinking it gives him leverage in negotiations, but the only truly acceptable outcome for the rest of Europe is for Ukraine to get everything back, Putin to be removed, his party ceasing to exist and Russia becoming a real democracy. On top of that they should be giving up most, if not all, of their nuclear weapons.
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them giving up their nuclear weapons is not going to happen. No matter who is in charge.
 
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Bedfordspurs said:
They are profiteers of their country through what would be illegal means in most society’s
They robbed the state of oil and other minerals TBF they squired favourably, to sell to the world
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It was anarchy. And to be fair to these people, they recognised the value that was within these state industries. Others didn't. It was the wild west, and they simply managed to grab entities that were being privitised while most were looking the other way. While grabbing these massive concerns, they were sorting each other out, and those in government were not removed or separate but in on the deals. A new autocracy was developing. When Putin came to power he did put the oligarchs in their place initially and let them know there was a clear line between business and the functioning of government. That was refreshing at the time. But greed wins out, and with everyone else in the elite becoming billionaires, Putin joined in. And then you're no better than them, you are beholden to them and them you. The autocracy was complete.
 
So china has banned all coverage of the prem this week. As teams are planning to wear bands in the colours of the ukranian flag.
 
DTA said:
them giving up their nuclear weapons is not going to happen. No matter who is in charge.
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Not voluntarily and certainly not under Putin, but long term that should be the goal. The idea that they're still a superpower is a delusion which needs to be ended.
 
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