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Potential Conundrum
- Thread starter ArcspacE
- Start date
I think it's fairly obvious they would go into the CL
Because CL is clearly the prestigious tournament of the two. Chelsea would purposely throw the final if that was the case
El Guepardo
Rafael Van Der Vaart
Imagine if both teams in the Final tried to throw the game for that reason!! Would surely become apparent to UEFA what was going on and they would.....swiftly reward Chelsea with an 'Advance to Champions League' pass for the next ten years! 
No it's about hierarchy though. Champions League ranks above the Europa league. Would it not be common sense that if you qualify for the elite tournament, you deserve to feature in it? Maybe it's just me.
Superted
Jonathan Woodgate
I've made this point before and while being tongue in cheek, opens up the hypocrisy of the divine right of Chelsea (and Liverpool) before to "defend their title" as if it were the done thing.
Pretty sure Usain Bolt will have to race the qualifying 100m at the next Olympics, and that the Ravens don't automatically get to the Super Bowl, nor just the playoffs. Daniel Day Lewis doesn't automatically get awarded an Oscar Nomination for his next role (although he probably will).
And neither do the Europa League winners get to retain their place to defend their title.
So why is it that the Champions League is different? It's not as if Liverpool and then Chelsea added anything other than comedy to the competitions they played in via the back door?
Pretty sure Usain Bolt will have to race the qualifying 100m at the next Olympics, and that the Ravens don't automatically get to the Super Bowl, nor just the playoffs. Daniel Day Lewis doesn't automatically get awarded an Oscar Nomination for his next role (although he probably will).
And neither do the Europa League winners get to retain their place to defend their title.
So why is it that the Champions League is different? It's not as if Liverpool and then Chelsea added anything other than comedy to the competitions they played in via the back door?
Superted
Jonathan Woodgate
Well we qualified for it, but didn't feature in it because a team who didn't qualify for it was allowed to enter it in our stead. Be gone common sense.
I know what you guys mean. The whole thing stinks, in the way we were shafted. And there is hypocrisy. But we know what will happen should the OPs conundrum occur.
Enter the Pitbull
Luke Young
I think the real question is what happens when Spurs finish 4th and Chelsea 5th + EL winners.
Oh look! New UEFA rule that winners of EL get to play in CL!
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Oh look! New UEFA rule that winners of EL get to play in CL!
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braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
It's obvious because the Champions League is a much bigger and much more attractive tournament to participate in.
But no one is saying that the champions should be given a direct go in the final, they have to play through the competition just like everyone else. Just like the Ravens (whoever they are) are going to be in the NFL thingy again.
I don't think the Olympics comparison is viable at all, completely different situation. But once again, no one is saying that the champions should be allowed to enter the final, just that they should be allowed to enter the competition.
Wasn't it so that before the change to the Champions League format that the defending champions were allowed to enter? I seem to remember something like this although very vaguely.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Not sure if it was, a somewhat big deal was made about it after Liverpool won it and finished outside the top 4. After that the rules changed, no big deal had to be made because the rules were in place.
They just added a way of qualifying for the Champions League. To me the hypothetical situation is not much different from winning the League- or FA-cup along with finishing in the top 4. Yes, the team has now qualified for both the EL and CL, so obviously they enter the CL. Hypothetically Chelsea can qualify for both tournaments, and obviously they will enter the CL.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
Arcspace's weekly paranoid delusion about UEFA.
So when is it 'acceptable' to defend your trophy in that case?
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
While I agree that the whole 'must defend your trophy rule' is a bit annoying, at the end of the day the rule was changed before the season we finished 4th started so we knew it could happen, should have been finishing third rather than happy with 4th.
But also, isn't it that it's up to the local FA as to how they would decide which 4 teams they want to enter? So usually it makes sense to enter the top 4 teams in the league, but if the winners finished outside top 4, they then have a decision to make, and they early chose the one that didn't benefit us.
I do think its stupid, if a team is finishing outside the top 4 in the league they can hardly be expected to put up a decent fight the next year, as Chelsea proved this season. Their win was one of the luckiest ever seen, not simply because they were valiant champions. It was always going to be a pretty pitiful defence of their title.
But also, isn't it that it's up to the local FA as to how they would decide which 4 teams they want to enter? So usually it makes sense to enter the top 4 teams in the league, but if the winners finished outside top 4, they then have a decision to make, and they early chose the one that didn't benefit us.
I do think its stupid, if a team is finishing outside the top 4 in the league they can hardly be expected to put up a decent fight the next year, as Chelsea proved this season. Their win was one of the luckiest ever seen, not simply because they were valiant champions. It was always going to be a pretty pitiful defence of their title.
It's covered in Rule 2.06 of the Europa League rules
2.06 Unless the UEFA Europa League titleholder qualifies for the UEFA
Champions League through its domestic championship, it is guaranteed a
place in the group stage of the UEFA Europa League. If the titleholder
qualifies for the UEFA Europa League through its domestic competitions, the
number of places to which its association is entitled in the UEFA Europa
League does not change. If the UEFA Europa League titleholder does not
qualify for either the UEFA Champions League or UEFA Europa League
through its domestic competitions, its participation in the UEFA Europa
League is not at the expense of the contingent of its association.
2.06 Unless the UEFA Europa League titleholder qualifies for the UEFA
Champions League through its domestic championship, it is guaranteed a
place in the group stage of the UEFA Europa League. If the titleholder
qualifies for the UEFA Europa League through its domestic competitions, the
number of places to which its association is entitled in the UEFA Europa
League does not change. If the UEFA Europa League titleholder does not
qualify for either the UEFA Champions League or UEFA Europa League
through its domestic competitions, its participation in the UEFA Europa
League is not at the expense of the contingent of its association.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
If you win the tournament you qualify for it for the next season. If you qualify for the EL and also the CL you get to play in the... Champions League.
It's not that difficult.
You could argue that the champions shouldn't be automatically qualified for the next tournament, personally I quite like it the way it is and I think winning a tournament should qualify you for the next one, but I see no real strong argument for either side. But to argue that the defending EL champions should be forced to play in the EL despite qualifying for the CL seems like the kind of thing we would laugh at if it was coming from fans of any other club.