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Politics, politics, politics

r-u-s-x said:
Yes but it was a prominent type of BREXIT that was being campaigned during the referendum - leaving the single market was a 11th hour change once they knew they had a chance of winning. During the referendum remain campaigners were saying that a Norway model will be worse than remaining, but it was certainly a model that was being pushed.

Norway + fulfills "the will of the people", solves the NI issue and we have "left the EU" - its crap but better than anything else we can achieve.

It is also likely to be the "will of the people" far more than no deal as all the Remain and a substantial minority of leavers would likely prefer this.
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It was a change because of a realisation - that soft brexit is worse than remaining. We lose sovrignity, not gain it. It was a lack of forsight by UKIP and Farrage, and others. Backing a hard brexit and no deal is not a position of choice, it is a forced default position taken up as the facts emerged and become clear that soft brexit is a joke (imo). That no deal still looks attractive is simply becuase it remains to be defined and fully understood. What leavers could not admit is that all leave options are suboptimal - as then they would have been wrong. And as we know people have difficulty saying they were wrong.
 
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nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Im not against another referendum on what option to take, and I find it interesting both Tories and Labour are highly resistant to it.

I think Labours view of being on the EUs leash is nuts, but can see it suits them.

Still not entirely clear what May wants to be honest, but even her deal leaves us tied into their standards etc doesnt it?
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We don't know. It is only an exit agreement at the moment. All this rubbish will run and run. The UK would still need to make a FTA with the EU.
 
SpurMeUp said:
To allow nations to cooperate. To trade freely. To move freely.
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All can be done outside of EU
SpurMeUp said:
To develop a new saterlile system - that was being made in the UK as we have the programmers and companies who can handle such a project.
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Can be done outside the confines of EU, if UK are that bothered to go through with it

SpurMeUp said:
It will now go to France instead.
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Oh well, good luck to them.

SpurMeUp said:
To pursue free trade with rest of the world for its member nations.
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Again, can be done outside of EU.

SpurMeUp said:
To maintain peace (EU born out of world war n all).
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Peace CAN exist outside of EU
SpurMeUp said:
No doubt pollution and global warming will become a big issue as this looms over the world. And the EU provices a means for a continent to cooperate and make changes they couldn't in isolation (we'd lose competitiveness unless everyone does it at once).
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Possible, but again cooperation CAN be done outside of EU
SpurMeUp said:
To provide an alternative to NATO etc etc
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No doubt, the EU wants to be LOTs of things, not least a new United States, but of Europe instead of America. Hitler and Napoleon wanted that too...doomed to failure as unlike the USA there are a vast number of languages, peoples, cultures, Economies and rich histories that to meld them into one country will not ultimately work.
SpurMeUp said:
So many postive things, but I note you were not able or willing to outline the positives of Brexit.
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All depends on how one spins 'positive'...i don't believe most of those things are 'positive' in or of themselves and i certainly don't think they are worth the negatives that i forsee in future (which will only be resolved by mass unrest when people realise they have little/no voice in the reality of how politics works in the EU.
Averting this disaster now is a good enough positive of Brexit for me. Regardless, whatever positive is provided if you are a staunch remainer you will not accept it s all this talk is a bit moot (as well as having been done to death), especially as we actually haven't left yet.
 
glorygloryeze said:
All can be done outside of EU

Can be done outside the confines of EU, if UK are that bothered to go through with it


Oh well, good luck to them.


Again, can be done outside of EU.


Peace CAN exist outside of EU

Possible, but again cooperation CAN be done outside of EU

No doubt, the EU wants to be LOTs of things, not least a new United States, but of Europe instead of America. Hitler and Napoleon wanted that too...doomed to failure as unlike the USA there are a vast number of languages, peoples, cultures, Economies and rich histories that to meld them into one country will not ultimately work.

All depends on how one spins 'positive'...i don't believe most of those things are 'positive' in or of themselves and i certainly don't think they are worth the negatives that i forsee in future (which will only be resolved by mass unrest when people realise they have little/no voice in the reality of how politics works in the EU.
Averting this disaster now is a good enough positive of Brexit for me. Regardless, whatever positive is provided if you are a staunch remainer you will not accept it s all this talk is a bit moot (as well as having been done to death), especially as we actually haven't left yet.
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most things can you are right, but not with our current governments red lines
 
You know what we should go further and just start making brick up like the Brexiters do.

Why are we bringing a knife to a gun fight
 
DTA said:
Brexiters want to make your country poorer.

brexeters don't care about your nan dying in hospital because of lack of medicine

Brexiters linked to Putin. FACT.
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Old news, change the spin/record...it hasn't worked up until now, even Tusk has now turned to religion for a new trick...
 
SpurMeUp said:
It was a change because of a realisation - that soft brexit is worse than remaining.
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Do you think, I think it is different to that. They saw Norway as an achievable milestone on the road to a harder Brexit, they could get more people onside with a slight change than a major change -- they didn't think they would win it but this was the way they could get a smaller loss. Once they realized they had a chance of winning they changed their position to their true position.

In short soft was a way to win the referendum while harder was the end goal that they thought would not win the referendum.
 
glorygloryeze said:
Old news, change the spin/record...it hasn't worked up until now, even Tusk has now turned to religion for a new trick...
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Nope... Remainders have never tried to use the emotional arguments. We have dealt in facts your mob... Fiction... Under Putin's instructions
 
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