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Politics, politics, politics

Like you say about British backpackers doing it in Aus, that shows there's nothing inherently lazy about British people. When it comes to the sh1ttier jobs over here, the difference between British workers and foreign ones (particularly those from Eastern Europe) is that British workers will take less sh1t off the boss and are less open to being exploited.

If someone has the gumption to go travel the world for an extended period, I suspect they dont reflect the average joe.

I think, as with most things, theres a gradient.

I know people who are benefit professionals, never done a days work and never intend to. Just as I know people who work multiple jobs, or simply every hour they can.

My dad spent a long time trying to get work (whole other conversation) and his experience was that there was work for people, but they werent interested. He took work packing in a factory, cleaning (incl toilets) etc so he could work, said no others in the job shop even considered it.
 
Like you say about British backpackers doing it in Aus, that shows there's nothing inherently lazy about British people. When it comes to the sh1ttier jobs over here, the difference between British workers and foreign ones (particularly those from Eastern Europe) is that British workers will take less sh1t off the boss and are less open to being exploited.

The reason the east Europeans are happy doing it is because they can after a few years here packing in a factory go back to their country and own without a mortgage a property.

We had a Czech girl in the logistic warehouse I ran a few years ago who was doing this. Good luck to her she was a nice girl and a hard worker.

She used to say she could not believe the extras she got here. Like health care being given free smear tests etc.

The British born workers who were struggling by were envious as the was no country they could go to and work in brick jobs and come back and own a home. None of them read the mail or the sun from what I can remember. This was a year before the referendum and I would put good money on knowing how they all voted.

But they were working class and low skilled so scum and we should not care what they think. They were the people most let down by Blair and new Labour.
 
But they were working class and low skilled so scum and we should not care what they think. They were the people most let down by Blair and new Labour.

Working-class people were let down by Blair and New Labour in a lot of ways, but that government did far more for us than the shower of qunts in Government that we've had for the past 8 years.

Signed

White working class scum.
 
Working-class people were let down by Blair and New Labour in a lot of ways, but that government did far more for us than the shower of qunts in Government that we've had for the past 8 years.

Signed

White working class scum.

To clarify. I do not think that about the working class. That is my back ground, was more a comment on how new Labour and the liberal media treated British working class people. Any complaints about anything and they were racist scum.

I do really like Corbyn and if I decide he is not a Nazi I will vote for him. Or I won't vote for anyone.
 
To clarify. I do not think that about the working class. That is my back ground, was more a comment on how new Labour and the liberal media treated British working class people. Any complaints about anything and they were racist scum.

I know you don't think that, I wasn't offended, just being a sarky qunt.

I do really like Corbyn and if I decide he is not a Nazi I will vote for him. Or I won't vote for anyone.

:D
 
So May has just said that if Parliament rejects Chequers, then it will be a No-Deal Brexit.

But hasn't the EU already rejected Chequers (in so many words)?

Also, has she not undermined the negotiations? May, surely, does not really want a No-Deal scenario. The EU can now easily call her bluff.

Another also -- The ERG MPs want no-deal, or at least prefer that to Chequers. So she has given them the perfect reason to rebel. Bring down Chequers and they get the no-deal that they want.
 
So May has just said that if Parliament rejects Chequers, then it will be a No-Deal Brexit.

But hasn't the EU already rejected Chequers (in so many words)?

Also, has she not undermined the negotiations? May, surely, does not really want a No-Deal scenario. The EU can now easily call her bluff.

Another also -- The ERG MPs want no-deal, or at least prefer that to Chequers. So she has given them the perfect reason to rebel. Bring down Chequers and they get the no-deal that they want.

I think May said that if Parliament rejects her deal, it will be a no-deal Brexit. That leaves some wiggle room for her to accept a final deal with the EU which is some way from Chequers, or which fudges and defers the choices. Some rolling news blogs have misreported this, notably the Grauniad's; you get what you pay for.
 
Brexit: PM says 'it's either my deal or no deal'

Theresa May has told the BBC that MPs will have a choice between her proposed deal with the EU - or no deal at all.

In an interview with Panorama, she is also critical of plans by Brexiteers to resolve the Irish border issue.

But ex-foreign secretary Boris Johnson claims the government's failure to resolve the border question has led to a "constitutional abomination".

A BBC-commissioned survey indicates more people across the UK think the impact of Brexit will be negative.

Speaking to the BBC's Nick Robinson, Mrs May says that if Parliament does not ratify the Chequers plan "I think that the alternative to that will be having no deal".

But Mr Johnson's column in Monday's Daily Telegraph criticises her strategy to leave the EU.

He says Mrs May's Chequers plan "would mean for the first time since 1066 our leaders were deliberately acquiescing in foreign rule".

He describes a backstop for the Irish border as "an attempt to annex Northern Ireland" by Brussels in creating a border down the Irish Sea.

Mr Johnson says the prime minister's solution to the Irish border question in the Chequers plan would mean the UK "must remain effectively in the customs union and large parts of the single market until Brussels says otherwise".

In her Panorama interview, Mrs May says there needs to be "friction-free movement of goods" with no customs or regulatory checks between the UK and EU on the island of Ireland, in order to avoid a hard border there.

Last week a group of Brexiteer Tory MPs said a hard border could be avoidedby using "established" technology and "modifying" existing arrangements.

Mr Johnson refers to the suggestions by the European Research Group (ERG) in his column, saying that "extra checks done away from the border" would prevent the need for physical checks when vehicles move between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic.

But Mrs May insists that any system of checks is "still a hard border".

"You don't solve the issue of no hard border by having a hard border 20km inside Ireland," she says.

The Times has reported that the EU is "secretly preparing to accept a frictionless Irish border".

It says the EU's chief negotiator Michel Barnier is working on a new "protocol" text outlining a plan to use technology to minimise checks.

Mrs May has found herself embattled with some in her party, after about 50 members of the ERG openly discussed how and when they could force her to stand down as prime minister.

But Brexit-supporting Environment Secretary Michael Gove said the Chequers plan was the right one "for now".

On Sunday he told Andrew Marr that a future prime minister could alter the relationship between the UK and the EU.

But he added: "The Chequers approach is the right one for now because we have got to make sure that we respect that vote and take advantage of the opportunities of being outside the European Union."

With nearly six months to go until exit from the EU on 29 March 2019, a poll commissioned by BBC Radio 5 Live suggests that the UK remains split over whether Brexit will be positive for the UK.

According to a Comres survey, 50% of British adults feel the overall impact will be negative, whereas 41% think it will be positive.

When asked about the handling of Brexit negotiations, almost 79% of people polled thought that the government had handled them badly, and 63% thought the EU had handled them badly.



Analysis
by Chris Mason, political correspondent

The Prime Minister's vision for Brexit has had bricks thrown at it at home, and in Brussels too. But her determination to stick with it - and sell it - continues; to the EU, to MPs, to Conservative activists and the wider public.

And there is, she says, a binary choice. Her deal or no deal.

Last week Conservative Brexiteers opposed to her plan set out their own ideas, including using technology to avoid checks at the Irish border. But, Mrs May argues, they are a non-starter.

But Boris Johnson claims the government's failure to resolve the border question has led to a "constitutional abomination" that will lead to a "total write-off of Brexit."




Careful Gove, your agenda is showing!

Quite frankly Id rather no deal than Chequers. Longer term it will work out for the best, better than just being the EUs puppet.

Whether that means we make a success of it, or we later rejoin the EU fully will remain to be seen, but a "full" manouvre right now is much better than a half measure.
 
I think May said that if Parliament rejects her deal, it will be a no-deal Brexit. That leaves some wiggle room for her to accept a final deal with the EU which is some way from Chequers, or which fudges and defers the choices. Some rolling news blogs have misreported this, notably the Grauniad's; you get what you pay for.

Yeah, that's where I got it from. So Mogg and the boys could still tell her "choose Canada" and she could go to the EU with that, everyone says yes...bar Labour, SNP, Lib Dems, The Green...and "Tory rebels."

Labour will probably vote down whatever the deal is because to get one that passes those 6 tests is nigh on impossible, but that's what they have maintained needs to happen from the beginning. "Tory Rebels" are all fannies bar Ken Clarke, so they can't be relied on to actually rebel. ERG MPs will vote down anything 'softer' than Canada deal. Right?
 
So May has just said that if Parliament rejects Chequers, then it will be a No-Deal Brexit.

But hasn't the EU already rejected Chequers (in so many words)?

Also, has she not undermined the negotiations? May, surely, does not really want a No-Deal scenario. The EU can now easily call her bluff.

Another also -- The ERG MPs want no-deal, or at least prefer that to Chequers. So she has given them the perfect reason to rebel. Bring down Chequers and they get the no-deal that they want.

I think the EU like dealing with May, she is weak. They will compromise enough to get a Chequers(like) deal through, because then we really will have fudged ourselves. While they will be tinkling themselves laughing.

Rather that than have Mays position blow up and then have to take on one of the Tory hardline fudgewits blundering through with their hobnail boots on.
 
Another also -- The ERG MPs want no-deal, or at least prefer that to Chequers. So she has given them the perfect reason to rebel. Bring down Chequers and they get the no-deal that they want.

Not necessarily. A general election and/or 3rd referendum are more likely in those scenarios.

I don't think the ERG will hit the nuclear option. They are just holding May's feet to the fire to stop further capitulations.
 
Yeah, that's where I got it from. So Mogg and the boys could still tell her "choose Canada" and she could go to the EU with that, everyone says yes...bar Labour, SNP, Lib Dems, The Green...and "Tory rebels."

Labour will probably vote down whatever the deal is because to get one that passes those 6 tests is nigh on impossible, but that's what they have maintained needs to happen from the beginning. "Tory Rebels" are all fannies bar Ken Clarke, so they can't be relied on to actually rebel. ERG MPs will vote down anything 'softer' than Canada deal. Right?

Nothing can actually pass the 6 tests because it includes a fundamental contradiction - "Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities". It either works for the capitalists or works for the workers, but can't do both.
 
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