Politics, politics, politics

[Baleforce]

Yet despite being able to see what is going on out there,half the UK electorate is considering voting for an extremist who is totally unsuited to lead the country.

all of the electorate are considering that as thats all either side have

 

[r-u-s-x]

Yet despite being able to see what is going on out there,half the UK electorate is considering voting for an extremist who is totally unsuited to lead the country.

Your economic views are more extreme than his, his are around the French level while yours have no country carrying them out. I would suggest this is the best measurement of extreme?

 

[r-u-s-x]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...be-as-bad-as-2008-financial-crash-carney-says

My highlights


Loiseau said those who had suggested the significance of the Irish border was being exaggerated were being irresponsible. Defending the need for a legal backstop aimed at avoiding a hard border, she said “we cannot wake up on 30 March to tell our Irish colleagues we don’t have a solution and we must go back to a hard border”.

She said the UK and the EU had been trying to divorce without hurting the kids, but “there is no way that this can be a win-win situation for both parties”.

She rejected requests to speculate on a possible extension of the talks beyond March, saying no such request had come from the British government or parliament. “Should there be a new position we would study it,” she said.

When asked to respond to her comments about planes and the Eurostar, the prime minister’s spokesman said: “It’s not in anybody’s interest for that to happen.”

The UK believes that countries such as Spain will not want to jeopardise revenues from British tourism, and that they would, if necessary, be prepared to strike bilateral deals to maintain transport services if there was no prospect of a deal.

A Department for Transport spokesperson said: “Our ambition in the upcoming negotiations with the EU is to maintain the existing liberal level of transport access.

“Both the UK and the EU reap significant benefits from the arrangements currently in place and it is in no one’s interests for planes and trains to be ‘turned away’.

------

So still at they need us more than them with effectively two months before brexit, it is an exciting time to be alive.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Diane Abbott unveils Labour's new immigration policy

A Labour government would bring in a simplified visa system for foreign workers with "bona fide skills", Diane Abbott has said.

The shadow home secretary said the party would also scrap the government's "bogus" net migration target.

She set out plans for a "flexible work visa" to end the "idiocy" of medical staff not being able to take up jobs.

Migrants from outside the EU should be treated with the same "fairness" as EU migrants after Brexit, she added.

The Conservatives said Labour's new policy would "tear up the rules for people coming from outside the EU which would allow more low-skilled immigration".

Under the current system, non-EU migrants are rated on whether their skills are needed by the UK economy, with occupations ranked in tiers drawn up by the Migration Advisory Committee.

Under Labour's plans "anyone with specified bona fide skills can come here to work," Diane Abbott said in a speech.

A "new, integrated work visa" would "allow a future Labour government to "offer rights of work and residency and accelerated citizenship to a range of professions, workers and those creating employment who want to come here," she added.

"It will be available to all those we need to come here, whether it is doctors, or scientists, or care workers.

"This will apply across a range of jobs, skills and professions. People coming to take up specific job offers, where it can be shown that those jobs cannot be filled by workers already resident here, will be able to come here.

"We will use intelligence from the Migration Advisory Council, from trades unions, from employers - private and public - and from devolved governments and local and regional elected bodies to identify needs and to meet them."

The policy would "sit alongside the existing visas for business trips, students, visitors and tourists" and bring an end to "the idiocy of preventing doctors and nurses from coming here to take up job offers".

Ms Abbott vowed to scrap the government's target of reducing net migration - the difference between those arriving in the UK and leaving - to below 100,000 a year.

"The target had never been met and never will be met," she told the BBC, and called for "a new conversation about migration that is not fixated on numbers".

She vowed to scrap the minimum income requirement for non-EU migrants and to give people "more rights of family reunion".

What the party's policy towards migrants from the EU would be after Brexit would depend on what the current government agreed in Brussels, she told the BBC, but she wanted to see "fairness" between the two categories.

"We want an immigration system which is fair, and which is managed, in the interests of the economy and the community as a whole," she added.

The shadow home secretary is also pledging that Labour will abolish the Immigration Act 2014 and end the "hostile environment" policy deployed by the government, which she said had led to the Windrush scandal.

But she insisted Labour would act against illegal immigration and "make the system of deportation of overseas criminals much easier and smoother".

"If a judge issues a recommendation for deportation for serious criminals post-sentence, that should be carried out as a matter of routine. From the prison to the airport," she said in her speech.

For the Conservatives, immigration minister Caroline Nokes said Labour had "no interest in getting control of our borders as we leave the EU".

"Only the Conservatives will end free movement and build a fair and controlled immigration system," she added.


So, pretty much what fair minded people have been saying. Treat all potential immigrants the same, and take in the ones that add the most value as priority.

No pulling up the draw bridge, simply making the system work more in the UKs favour, as opposed to having little say in it at all.

 

[Gutter Boy]

It's better because it ends racial discrimination, but it's still neo-liberal. Immigration shouldn't be driven by business needs, it should be driven by community needs.

There needs to be some conditions linked to upskilling the workforce - that employers bringing in economic migrants have to pay for the equivalent number of residents to be trained in that sector (i.e. sponsor student tuition fees)

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Reading between the lines it looks to me like they would target skilled people that add value over bottom end of the scale workers.

Jobs which anyone can do, and so British people should be doing rather than importing labour to cover it.

Which is, if Im not mistaken, targeting one of your common complaints about immigration.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Reading between the lines it looks to me like they would target skilled people that add value over bottom end of the scale workers.

Jobs which anyone can do, and so British people should be doing rather than importing labour to cover it.

Which is, if Im not mistaken, targeting one of your common complaints about immigration.

In theory yes. But so is the current immigration system in theory. It's just not implemented because the big corporations call the shots.

If you look at the current tiers:
Tier 1 - Oligarchs
Tier 2 - Highly skilled workers
Tier 3 - Temporary low skilled workers; never actually opened
Tier 4 - Students
Tier 5 - Temporary creative, sporting and youth mobility

Basically now all unskilled workers go through as Tier 2 because the corporations are in charge and they game it.

That's why you need the punitive disincentives, like having the pay for skills training. £9k a year for a student's tuition fee is loose change from an executive package, but would make people think again when they are simply trying to undercut local wages

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Or you just stop importing toilet cleaners and let nature take its course.

 

[parklane1]

Reading between the lines it looks to me like they would target skilled people that add value over bottom end of the scale workers.

Jobs which anyone can do, and so British people should be doing rather than importing labour to cover it.

Which is, if Im not mistaken, targeting one of your common complaints about immigration.

I don't know how to use the like button, and if the lazy bricks claiming dole will not take those jobs then they should not get any money.

 

[the dza]

I don't know how to use the like button, and if the lazy bricks claiming dole will not take those jobs then they should not get any money.

Someone once told me (I'm not sure how accurate it is, but it made sense) that seasonal workers (when British people used to work in the fields) used to be able to sign on more easily between jobs, or between the seasons. They might have to stop demonising anybody who signs on if it's the natives who are gonna cover this kind of work. I do live out in the sticks and know an old boy who used to work the fields when he left school (but that was about 60 years ago).

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I don't know how to use the like button, and if the lazy bricks claiming dole will not take those jobs then they should not get any money.

You dont need to post again this year, you just won post of the year right there old son.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Someone once told me (I'm not sure how accurate it is, but it made sense) that seasonal workers (when British people used to work in the fields) used to be able to sign on more easily between jobs, or between the seasons. They might have to stop demonising anybody who signs on if it's the natives who are gonna cover this kind of work. I do live out in the sticks and know an old boy who used to work the fields when he left school (but that was about 60 years ago).

When I was on the building sites we used to get teachers come on in their summer holidays, bit like how fireman have second jobs on their days off. Dare say people have got lazy and dont want to go out and earn extra, would rather have tax credits or moan they are being taxed to much.

Also one of the ladies I work with she is driving her daughter down to Southampton next weekend, she is starting university doing marine biology of course. She worked at B&Q last summer, they paid for her to go do her scuba diving abroad all winter. She had a 3 month job doing recruitment has not worked for the last 3 months because she was waiting to go to university and the was no point starting something new.

Said why did she not come back her on a temp contract they are always giving them out for a few months. Was told she wanted to relax, after a winter scuba diving and 3 months in a recruitment job. The mum was suitably embarrassed telling me this and shrugged her shoulders and said they wont be told.

My lad is 15 next month, if he ever behaves like that and the is breath in my body I dont care what the liberals say I will smash seven shades of brick out of him. One thing we have always been is workers us Lamberts.

So long story short people with jobs that allowed them to do extra casual work are lazy and students the young are absolute fcuking scum, I wont shy away from it, if my lad behaves like that at 19 he will be finding himself somewhere else to live.

To be fair he likes money like his old man so I think he will go out and earn it.

 

[the dza]

When I was on the building sites we used to get teachers come on in their summer holidays, bit like how fireman have second jobs on their days off. Dare say people have got lazy and dont want to go out and earn extra, would rather have tax credits or moan they are being taxed to much.

Also one of the ladies I work with she is driving her daughter down to Southampton next weekend, she is starting university doing marine biology of course. She worked at B&Q last summer, they paid for her to go do her scuba diving abroad all winter. She had a 3 month job doing recruitment has not worked for the last 3 months because she was waiting to go to university and the was no point starting something new.

Said why did she not come back her on a temp contract they are always giving them out for a few months. Was told she wanted to relax, after a winter scuba diving and 3 months in a recruitment job. The mum was suitably embarrassed telling me this and shrugged her shoulders and said they wont be told.

My lad is 15 next month, if he ever behaves like that and the is breath in my body I dont care what the liberals say I will smash seven shades of brick out of him. One thing we have always been is workers us Lamberts.

So long story short people with jobs that allowed them to do extra casual work are lazy and students the young are absolute fcuking scum, I wont shy away from it, if my lad behaves like that at 19 he will be finding himself somewhere else to live.

To be fair he likes money like his old man so I think he will go out and earn it.

I've seen British do every single job that EU migrants do, except for harvesting crops. So I don't buy the "lazy British" gonads. There must be something a bit unique about harvesting, because we don't seem to get Portuguese over here doing it, but they do anything else (had various agency work alongside African lads who had Portuguese passports due to their old colonial links). I think there's some sort of fiddle where they (the bosses) are somehow dodging paying the minimum wage to these workers.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Someone once told me (I'm not sure how accurate it is, but it made sense) that seasonal workers (when British people used to work in the fields) used to be able to sign on more easily between jobs, or between the seasons. They might have to stop demonising anybody who signs on if it's the natives who are gonna cover this kind of work. I do live out in the sticks and know an old boy who used to work the fields when he left school (but that was about 60 years ago).

More of it used to be done by students. But since then higher education has been neo-liberalised and most students now are too afraid to work during their studies

 

[Gutter Boy]

I've seen British do every single job that EU migrants do, except for harvesting crops. So I don't buy the "lazy British" gonads. There must be something a bit unique about harvesting, because we don't seem to get Portuguese over here doing it, but they do anything else (had various agency work alongside African lads who had Portuguese passports due to their old colonial links). I think there's some sort of fiddle where they (the bosses) are somehow dodging paying the minimum wage to these workers.

A lot of crop pickers in Australia are British backpackers

 

[the dza]

More of it used to be done by students. But since then higher education has been neo-liberalised and most students now are too afraid to work during their studies

I'm gonna have to have a chat with the old fella I know and see who used to do what, at least in this area. The only thing I know for sure is that he "worked the fields" as he put it when he left school, but he's in his mid 70s s that was a long time ago. Loads of students work, so I don't see why they wouldn't do a job like that if the money is right.

Like you say about British backpackers doing it in Aus, that shows there's nothing inherently lazy about British people. When it comes to the sh1ttier jobs over here, the difference between British workers and foreign ones (particularly those from Eastern Europe) is that British workers will take less sh1t off the boss and are less open to being exploited.

 

[Parklaner81]

I'm gonna have to have a chat with the old fella I know and see who used to do what, at least in this area. The only thing I know for sure is that he "worked the fields" as he put it when he left school, but he's in his mid 70s s that was a long time ago. Loads of students work, so I don't see why they wouldn't do a job like that if the money is right.

I worked at a university in the late 90's/early 00's, then after a long break went back into the sector in 2015. I've been shocked at how few students seem to have (or want) jobs these days, compared to the situation I observed the first time around.

Who knows, maybe stats would prove me completely wrong, but my experience leads me to agree with GB's view on this.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I think the stats are something like 80% of students worked through their studies 10/15 years ago, whereas its 20% now

 

[Gutter Boy]

There's a few reasons for it. It's mainly the fear of failure (2.2s are now seen as failure, rather than par). But the loans also cover living costs now. But both are essentially part of the neo-liberalisation of HE.

 

[Parklaner81]

I think the stats are something like 80% of students worked through their studies 10/15 years ago, whereas its 20% now

This would certainly chime with what I've seen.