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Politics, politics, politics

Re the EU referendum. I think Labour should stay right out of it. I would give all Labour MP's a conscience vote and watch the Tories fall apart at the seams. Ditto for the Scottish question. They did the heavy lifting last Sept and got a pasting. Not next time.
 
LutonSpurs said:
The FPTP via PR thing needs perspective, without a doubt if we did ever go to PR, the major parties would completely re-evaluate their campaigning and alot more independants would pop up. The far right (UKIP) would still be a small part of the power distribution as would the far left (Green).
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Should use single constituency preferential voting.
 
LutonSpurs said:
The FPTP via PR thing needs perspective, without a doubt if we did ever go to PR, the major parties would completely re-evaluate their campaigning and alot more independants would pop up. The far right (UKIP) would still be a small part of the power distribution as would the far left (Green).
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Far right and far left? Really? Neither are fascist or communist.
 
NWND said:
No, the reason they lost was they were too old Labour.
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This. It was the lurch back to the left and the possibility of deals with the left wing SNP that did for them.

Had the competent Miliband won the leadership contest and presented Labour as fiscally sound, they'd probably have run the Conservatives close. The public clearly doesn't want the left wing - if Labour want a chance in 5 years they need Umunna or someone similar. Hopefully the unions force another Red Ed type on the Labour leadership and ruin their chances further.
 
From the perspective of a left-wing voter, I hope they don't go to Tory lite. If people want the Tory party in, then they have the Tory party to vote for. Labour, imo, should give people a different option, otherwise they are kinda pointless.

Miliband and Labour didn't inspire. Sturgeon and the SNP have shown what a bit of political inspiration can do for votes. Somewhere is Labour's answer, and it's away from both Blair and Brown imo.
 
Just read a very good article from Labour Uncut, which argues that the party appeals to it's activists, but not the public. Too many Oxbridge types. Too many urban middle class 'leftists', who are probably not even socialists, but are motivated by issues such as gay marriage etc. I kind of agree, for Labour to win, they need to re-connect to working people. The present leadership, don't look, or sound like ordinary working people. Labour has a problem when MPs representing places like Darlington look and sound like Cameron. The Tory members do look and sound like they represent their constituency, mostly public school types.
 
scaramanga said:
This. It was the lurch back to the left and the possibility of deals with the left wing SNP that did for them.

Had the competent Miliband won the leadership contest and presented Labour as fiscally sound, they'd probably have run the Conservatives close. The public clearly doesn't want the left wing - if Labour want a chance in 5 years they need Umunna or someone similar. Hopefully the unions force another Red Ed type on the Labour leadership and ruin their chances further.
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If Labour need to do that, they may as well all cross the floor now and join the Tories. That was Thatcher's long term goal Not going to happen!
 
the dza said:
Who is Jarvis?
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Dan Jarvis is a Labour backbencher and member for Barnsley Central. Former officer in the British Army, who saw service in Kosovo and Iraq. People think he would appeal to ordinary members of the public and is a clean skin, having not served in Blair or Brown's cabinet.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Dan Jarvis is a Labour backbencher and member for Barnsley Central. Former officer in the British Army, who saw service in Kosovo and Iraq. People think he would appeal to ordinary members of the public and is a clean skin, having not served in Blair or Brown's cabinet.
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Sounds a little bit more like what Labour need. But what does he believe in? Is he a Blairite or something different?
 
the dza said:
Sounds a little bit more like what Labour need. But what does he believe in? Is he a Blairite or something different?
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No, one of the reasons people want him as leader. Sounds like a moderate, but supports basic Labour beliefs. Not an inner suburban trendy, or an Oxbridge type, even though he attended Sandhurst. Well, he'd have to, to get a commission.
 
I love how Labour supporters still think Blair was THE PROBLEM. Something to be distanced from. He made them electable and won two terms in office. Neither Brown, nor Milliband did it. Brown stabbed Blair in the back and he was more old Labour. Red Ed was still further towards old Labour and his entire spiel was about kicking the rich and fighting for working people, but did even worse.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
The Tory members do look and sound like they represent their constituency, mostly public school types.
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That's absolutely not true and I suspect you know it.

An example: The Conservatives took Portsmouth South in this election. I'm not sure if you've ever had the misfortune of visiting Portsmouth South, but its inhabitants and public school types are at opposite ends of just about any scale you can think of.

They also took a seat in Southampton. Not sure if you've been there either but the inhabitants there aren't even on the same evolutionary ladder as the rest of us,
let alone a social one.
 
NWND said:
I love how Labour supporters still think Blair was THE PROBLEM. Something to be distanced from. He made them electable and won two terms in office. Neither Brown, nor Milliband did it. Brown stabbed Blair in the back and he was more old Labour. Red Ed was still further towards old Labour and his entire spiel was about kicking the rich and fighting for working people, but did even worse.
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Like I said, if the answer is Tory Lite, may as well give up and cross the floor enmass.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
By constituency, I meant the general sense of the word, not marginals like Itchen Southampton.
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Constituents as in the make up of the party?

In which case Labour sounds exactly the same as its constituent parts - a bunch of salad munching, Islington w4nkers.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Like I said, if the answer is Tory Lite, may as well give up and cross the floor enmass.
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Well no, it's not about being Tory-lite, it's about having a serious vision people can buy into about how they'd make their version of the UK work.

The problem with Ed was that for all his talk of saving the NHS, welfare spending, new homes and taxes for business and mansions, he never gave a credible explanation for how he'd do it without fudging the country...
 
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