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Politics, politics, politics

Surely The Tories can get someone else as leader. They are the government until 2022, May is not the person to lead this country though. She is obsessed with immigration above all else and imo, it is damaging to the country.
 
the dza said:
They are the government until 2022.
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Only if they keep the crazed fundamentalist red hand of Ulster bigots on side, and don't split apart over Brexit. A government of national unity with big roles for Soubry and Umunna isn't out of the question, and another general election before 2022 should be odds-on.
 
the dza said:
It benefits the same ethnic group more than any other, so it's not the same. If you take money from a few people who are mostly white and dole it out to a larger group of people who are mostly white, that doesn't equal institutional racism.
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You're moving the goalposts now. When the Immigration Act was racist, the beneficiaries of the policy weren't relevant. In fact, legal immigrants stand to benefit a huge amount from it as they would be competing in a far less congested labour pool.

Your only requirement for the Immigration Act to be racist was the belief that it disproportionately affected some racial groups over others. Taxation disproportionately affects one racial group over others.
 
the dza said:
Right -- yet even she could see the problem. That means the people enacting the policies could also see the problem. But they didn't care, just plough on and try and hit targets. So whilst not intentionally targetting citizens here legally who happen to be black, they knew what the outcome would be. Unless you honestly think Diane Abbott could see something that they could not.
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They didn't care - that much is obvious. It's a shoddy policy and not one I would ever have voted for. Still doesn't make it racist.
 
scaramanga said:
You're moving the goalposts now. When the Immigration Act was racist, the beneficiaries of the policy weren't relevant. In fact, legal immigrants stand to benefit a huge amount from it as they would be competing in a far less congested labour pool.

Your only requirement for the Immigration Act to be racist was the belief that it disproportionately affected some racial groups over others. Taxation disproportionately affects one racial group over others.
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You can keep going with your silly semantic arguments if you want to, I won't be joining in. Only on planet Scara is paying tax something akin to being wrongly detained or deported.
 
the dza said:
Surely The Tories can get someone else as leader. They are the government until 2022, May is not the person to lead this country though. She is obsessed with immigration above all else and imo, it is damaging to the country.
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Not until after Brexit.

Nobody else is going to ruin their career on that - May is only doing so because she had no other hope of leading the country IMO.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Maybe you do. Let me assure you right now though, I am no Tory. I have no party affiliation at all. I cant stand any of them truth be told.

Though, much like West Ham, Labour supporters are doing a very good job of putting me off their "team". They seem a particularly aggressive and rabid bunch.
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fudging good thing too, as there is plenty to be aggressive and rabid about. I don't want a tepid response to the present shamble of brick that is the present government, I want an opposition that is going to go after the nasty incompetent fudgers
 
Good for you. Cant say its to my taste but c'est la vie.

I understand why people find the Tories distasteful, but for me Labour supporters are even more off putting.

You need only look through this thread, gleeful about anything that goes wrong which they can stick on the Tories, preaching about St Corbyn as if some sort of religious sect, I find it all rather off putting.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Labour's big vice is its drive for social control. Them and the Tories are two sides of the same coin - they seek to accumulate power and suppress individual freedom. Tories do it through big business, Labour the state.
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That's the other one that the Tories just love, why bother with Labour they're just the same. All just reaffirming the political status quo and boosting rule by the establishment. Lenin called these people "useful idiots."
 
scaramanga said:
That would be a first for her.


Yes, she is incredibly stupid - surely even Labour supporters can see that. Comparing her to May doesn't really mean much - we all know how terrible she is, we also know that she will be replaced as soon as there is a viable person to replace her.
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Scara, you have been saying that for almost twelve months now. Says something about the paucity of talent and electoral appeal in the Tory party.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
That's the other one that the Tories just love, why bother with Labour they're just the same. All just reaffirming the political status quo and boosting rule by the establishment. Lenin called these people "useful idiots."
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And the rest of us call them "those that understand economics".
 
the dza said:
Surely The Tories can get someone else as leader. They are the government until 2022, May is not the person to lead this country though. She is obsessed with immigration above all else and imo, it is damaging to the country.
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She's not even obsessed with it, because it's still completely uncontrolled and at a high level. She just seems to have an obsession with creating a Kafka-esque process. The actual outcome doesn't seem to bother her
 
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Gilzeantoscore said:
fudging good thing too, as there is plenty to be aggressive and rabid about. I don't want a tepid response to the present shamble of brick that is the present government, I want an opposition that is going to go after the nasty incompetent fudgers
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That's why they'll never get my vote. Just as much hatred, fear and paranoia. I vote for hope
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Good for you. Cant say its to my taste but c'est la vie.

I understand why people find the Tories distasteful, but for me Labour supporters are even more off putting.

You need only look through this thread, gleeful about anything that goes wrong which they can stick on the Tories, preaching about St Corbyn as if some sort of religious sect, I find it all rather off putting.
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The tone of this suggests that you are not the independent minded person you claim to be. I haven't read anything on here that remotely suggests that Corbyn is some sort of saintly figure, as labour supporters can see he is flawed. However, compared to the present PM, well anything would be an improvement on her.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
The tone of this suggests that you are not the independent minded person you claim to be. I haven't read anything on here that remotely suggests that Corbyn is some sort of saintly figure, as labour supporters can see he is flawed. However, compared to the present PM, well anything would be an improvement on her.
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You wouldnt, would you? You're one of them.

I am not partizan in this at all. Its like catchphrase for me, say what you see.

In general I find something I can get behind and something I dont like in all party manifesto/policy.

I dont see a single party who has an ideology I can really get behind.

And more and more I find myself thinking the "party" element of politics actually gets in the way of the right thing being done most of the time.

Ive said before, and yes - I know its impossible - but Id much rather vote on a policy by policy basis than for one whole package.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
That's the other one that the Tories just love, why bother with Labour they're just the same. All just reaffirming the political status quo and boosting rule by the establishment. Lenin called these people "useful idiots."
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Labour is the establishment too. You should see the decadence and contempt in places they govern. Look at the current deforestation of Sheffield/PPI/dawn raids and violent removal of protesting pensioners situation.
 
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