Makes a lot of sense
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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
milo
Jack L. Jones
Brexit means that the government will not have the parliamentary time to do a massive reform of anything for the next decade. Reforming education learning the lessons of other countries would be a good idea but it would take us in the opposite direction to the current government has signalled it intends to go and would require a massive increase in spending. Other than that, your suggestion seems to make the perfect case for interim EEA membership whilst the other changes are given a chance to be seen through.
Bullet
Andy Thompson
That chap says the government could impose a 5 year wait for immigrants before being eligible for NHS, welfare benefits, income tax breaks.
Sounds good.
milo
Jack L. Jones
It was a point that I made before the referendum. It has always been within our control, we just need the same rules for British and EU residents.
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
doesn't sound fair to me, if they are working they should accrue NI points the same as anybody else
Or, to paraphrase Amber Rudd, "Nobody gives a fudge"
Or more succinctly everyone knows the Police were Thatcher's private army to break the unions, they lied and broke the law routinely by design not accident. Whats the point in spending £m on something we all know anyway.
Good for them.
It was either the police or the real army - they're lucky it was the police. Imagine the damage the army would have done.
1). it was not the police or the army, these were not the only choices.
2). I know you are a bit laissez faire on police force obeying while enforcing the law but this would be a priority for me. Not going to get to involved in the rights and wrongs of this as we will never agree.
With regards to a cover up / need for a review I agree these is no reason to do this as it is accepted by all that the police force acted unlawfully but some think it was justified. If you are having a review then it should be on the lawfulness of the government for instructing these policies and this is not on the cards.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Using your own way of saying things only fudgeing tools do not care about a cover up against the workers by a goverment who were determined to get their own back after seeing Heath lose.
1) I doubt we'll agree on this one either, but for me it had to be done. "Workers" and I do use the term in its very loosest sense, were using brute force and physical intimidation to fudge things up for everyone else. That cannot be allowed to happen.
1a) I don't believe there ever could have been an agreement that ended strikes that didn't involve the government propping up dying industries.
2) I'm sure we won't agree there either. For me the fault is in those who use bullying and intimidation in the first place. Doing so puts the blame squarely on their shoulders, not of the police.
It wasn't about revenge, it was about allowing the country to develop and progress, not being held to ransom by a few greedy, workshy tossers.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Well once again we will disagree, fudging tools are everywhere mate i can not escape them
in reply to 2). I don't want those who are enforcing the law to break the law, almost ever, they have rules of engagement that we as a society have decided they should abide. If the other side decide to break the law they go to prison, same should be for the police. Or change the law to reflect that the police have absolute retaliatory powers Judge Dred style. Don't have laws that pretend we are civilized while condoning / encouraging the opposite.
I
indianspur
Guest
For example the minimum wage in Romania is equivalent to £1.50 an hour. Are you really suggesting the same rate should apply to Brits and romanian immigrants in the UK? it will have to apply to natives as well as immigrants as part of being part of the single market.
Actually i think I already know the answer because I'm sure you don't believe there should be a minimum wage anyway.
I don't think there's a realistic alternative.
Yes, the proper action would have been to individually arrest each of those on the strikes, but that couldn't be done. As at football matches, the way to move a large, hostile crowd is on horseback - I don't think there's a better alternative that anyone has found.
Personally I think CS and water cannon would have done the job without having to risk the safety of the police, but I'm no expert in police tactics.
Nail. Head.
"As at football matches, the way to move a large, hostile crowd is on horseback - I don't think there's a better alternative that anyone has found."
I am not arguing against this but I would suggest that below would imply that they went above and beyond this. Again if we have laws and rules the police should follow them/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/22/orgreave-truth-police-miners-strike
"Far less publicised, a year later, was the unravelling of the police case. Officers had arrested and charged 95 miners with riot, an offence of collective violence carrying a potential life sentence. Yet in July 1985 the prosecution withdrew and all the miners were were acquitted after the evidence of some police officers, including those in command, had been discredited under cross-examination.
In 1991 South Yorkshire police paid £425,000 compensation to 39 miners who had sued the force for assault, unlawful arrest and malicious prosecution. But still the police did not admit any fault, and not a single police officer was ever disciplined or prosecuted."
During these discussions it does appear that your argument relies on how you would do things rather than the rules we as a society have agreed on. I know its a forum and you can have your opinion but just because you think that a water cannon should be used unless its lawful it does not really bring a lot to the table as I can counter it with - "no it shouldn't".
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I
indianspur
Guest
The problem is there are many low skilled jobs that need doing whether by Brits or by immigrants. Let's say Amazon need 2000 workers to help fulfil orders at one of their warehouses. If there is no minimum wage and Amazon is free to offer what it wants then what do think the outcome will be ? will Brits be able or want to work for let's say £3.00 or less an hour? the jobs will need filling somehow