Politics, politics, politics

[Gilzeantoscore]

Last from me on this unless I can think of anything new or useful to add. The times editorial calls it about right for me:


“The job of leader of the opposition is a difficult one. It involves leading roles in some of the toughest occasions in the parliamentary calendar... Mr Corbyn has so far managed a long political career with no notable success.

He... is a serial protester, a man happier saying what is wrong than worrying over the troublesome detail of how to put it right.

He is a man who has never had to perform at high-profile moments in parliament, never had to write a big speech for a party conference, never had to take the lead in set-piece interviews.”

They just don't get do they? More of the 'wrong man' mantra. These great defenders of democracy bemoan the fact that somebody that they disapprove of got elected. Corbyn had such a hide, as an outsider, he had the audacity to run and to ...well win. This cannot be happening only neo liberals need apply.

 

[milo]

They just don't get do they? More of the 'wrong man' mantra. These great defenders of democracy bemoan the fact that somebody that they disapprove of got elected. Corbyn had such a hide, as an outsider, he had the audacity to run and to ...well win. This cannot be happening only neo liberals need apply.

We'll see. How do you think that he has done since Saturday?

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Okay. It will take a week to sort through all the anti Labour media spin to get to any truth. There is only one truth according to Fleet Street-neo liberalism, there is no other. This is the way, the future and the light. Yeah, Corbyn is an extremist. I know who the extremists are!

 

[StephenH]

Would make a belting new script for 'The Thick Of It'
Malcolm Tucker would have blown his top. Shame we'll never see him again....they say fact is stranger than fiction.

I'm secretly enjoying the Corbyn show its the nearest I get to being anarchic.....we will miss this in a perverse sort of way when this pantomime ends.

 

[Baleforce]

A good read from Tony Parsons

http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2015-09/12/tony-parsons-voting-conservative

 

[milo]

Okay. It will take a week to sort through all the anti Labour media spin to get to any truth. There is only one truth according to Fleet Street-neo liberalism, there is no other. This is the way, the future and the light. Yeah, Corbyn is an extremist. I know who the extremists are!

If you are right, how does he circumvent the spin and Fleet Street-neo liberalism to get his message across to voters?

 

[scaramanga]

If you are right, how does he circumvent the spin and Fleet Street-neo liberalism to get his message across to voters?

I'd also like to add to that question:

Do you believe that (outside of the fringe members of what is now nearing a fringe party), people think the way they do because Fleet Street tells them to or that Fleet Street publishes what people want to hear?

 

[glasgowspur]

Re the tony parsons article, it's fair to say we would all vote for a fairer society, problem is there's no party we can trust to deliver it.

 

[milo]

Parsons was talking up his support for UKIP before the election

 

[parklane1]

Re the tony parsons article, it's fair to say we would all vote for a fairer society, problem is there's no party we can trust to deliver it.

Bingo.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

If you are right, how does he circumvent the spin and Fleet Street-neo liberalism to get his message across to voters?

Circumvent it by using social media. Also don't give in. Too many 'Labour' types have no stomach for anything approaching struggle. tinkle weak! People are slowly waking up to the fact that just because Murdoch's hacks say it's so, doesn't necessarily make it so. MSM is dying but It's going to take some time yet though.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

I'd also like to add to that question:

Do you believe that (outside of the fringe members of what is now nearing a fringe party), people think the way they do because Fleet Street tells them to or that Fleet Street publishes what people want to hear?

Ha, ha keep dreaming. Labour still have 230 odd members in the House of Commons.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

This is the frightening extremism of the neo-cons. They seriously believe opposition view points to be dangerous...heretical even. There is a complete lack of tolerance of anything that questions market orthodoxy. It really is like a Stalinist cult. Everyone has to drink the Kool Aid.

 

[scaramanga]

One of your all time funniest posts Scara. Ha, ha!

Well, he does like to post unsubstantiated nonsense like that, so it'd be nice if he could back it up with some quotes. The site is fairly easily searchable and goes back a few years.

Of course, it's often easier to caricature Conservative voters (I wasn't one this time around, BTW) as evil and selfish because it makes your cause seem morally superior. Far easier to assume that your cause is the only one that is designed to help those who cannot help themselves. Far easier to shout about what's wrong with the world than to actually begin the job of fixing it (much like Corbyn).

When I do vote Conservative, it's not because they provide the best result for me (I'm not even sure they do with the new rules on dividends), it's because I have a working understanding of economics and am able to tell that the best thing for the country as a whole is not to spend ourselves into oblivion or attempt to take part in last century's socialist experiment that has failed every single time it's been attempted.

 

[scaramanga]

Circumvent it by using social media. Also don't give in. Too many 'Labour' types have no stomach for anything approaching struggle. tinkle weak! People are slowly waking up to the fact that just because Murdoch's hacks say it's so, doesn't necessarily make it so. MSM is dying but It's going to take some time yet though.

There was an interesting debate this morning on Radio 4 about social media and politics.

The general gist was that whilst social media is an excellent platform for shouty people to tell everyone what's wrong with the world (yes, you Comrade Corbyn), it's not at all suited to the important bit of politics which is the creation of a solution to that problem with all the compromise and nuances that come with it. Partly that's down to the format - Twitter especially suffers due to it's character limitation - but it's also partly down to the audience. People who use social media as their main source of political commentary tend to be the kind of people that listen to Russell Brand (the politest way I can phrase that). Their attention spans (with regard to politics) don't tend to extend to fuller and more in-depth articles and they tend to be politically aligned beforehand with shouting about problems that they perceive to be in the system.

 

[milo]

Circumvent it by using social media. Also don't give in. Too many 'Labour' types have no stomach for anything approaching struggle. tinkle weak! People are slowly waking up to the fact that just because Murdoch's hacks say it's so, doesn't necessarily make it so. MSM is dying but It's going to take some time yet though.

I think that the issue with that is that most voters only engage with politics once every five years and by then will have made up their mind about the opposition.

The other issue with social media is that all too often it is an echo chamber with activists speaking to the converted.

 

[milo]

The Labour leader will always have to deal with a hostile media. The way to deal with this is to be better at media handling than the Conservatives.

It seems strange to me that the rule book on modern media handling was written by Labour in the mid-nineties but the only party currently playing by it are the Conservatives and Osborne in particular. Predictably, they dictate the terms of the debate and have been highly effective in discrediting their opponents.

 

[parklane1]

Well, he does like to post unsubstantiated nonsense like that, so it'd be nice if he could back it up with some quotes. The site is fairly easily searchable and goes back a few years.

Of course, it's often easier to caricature Conservative voters (I wasn't one this time around, BTW) as evil and selfish because it makes your cause seem morally superior. Far easier to assume that your cause is the only one that is designed to help those who cannot help themselves. Far easier to shout about what's wrong with the world than to actually begin the job of fixing it (much like Corbyn).

When I do vote Conservative, it's not because they provide the best result for me (I'm not even sure they do with the new rules on dividends), it's because I have a working understanding of economics and am able to tell that the best thing for the country as a whole is not to spend ourselves into oblivion or attempt to take part in last century's socialist experiment that has failed every single time it's been attempted.

There you go again, you run out of intelligent things to say and you resort to trying to belittle those who disagree with your rubbish over this topic.

You really have a high ( false) opinion of yourself

 

[scaramanga]

There you go again, you run out of intelligent things to say and you resort to trying to belittle those who disagree with your rubbish over this topic.

You really have a high ( false) opinion of yourself

This is the post of yours I quoted:

Would you listen to any attempt to explain any opinion then what you believe? I would doubt that very much and as I said would be a waste of my time and yours. You carry on with the " I am all right jack" way of thinking and screw the others, after all that is how you usually deal with this topic.

Take a look at the bolded bit and tell my why it's me resorting to making belittling comments.

All I ask is that if you make (in this case) false accusations/attributions about me, at least have the decency to base it in fact. There's a very good search system on this site and posts don't get deleted. What you'll find, by paying attention to my posts is that I deal with my personal finances in a manner that is unlikely to be affected by which government is in power. My belief in (note the small c) conservatism is based on economic sense and a belief that it's the best way to run a country.

I make no apologies for the high opinion I have of myself and never have. If arrogance and egotism are the downsides to being me, then I can live with them.

 

[parklane1]

This is the post of yours I quoted:

Take a look at the bolded bit and tell my why it's me resorting to making belittling comments.

All I ask is that if you make (in this case) false accusations/attributions about me, at least have the decency to base it in fact. There's a very good search system on this site and posts don't get deleted. What you'll find, by paying attention to my posts is that I deal with my personal finances in a manner that is unlikely to be affected by which government is in power. My belief in (note the small c) conservatism is based on economic sense and a belief that it's the best way to run a country.

I make no apologies for the high opinion I have of myself and never have. If arrogance and egotism are the downsides to being me, then I can live with them.

And when you go to bed at night I bet you hold your own hand.