Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[ricky2tricky4city]

Agree with all of that.
But you can't fight today's battle on yesterday's battlefield; you can't win that because the enemy is elsewhere, your screams are only an echo and you just fight your own shadow

Then you learned nothing from the Brexit vote and become complicit in any success for Reform

So what is it you think we need to do to beat Reform?

Exactly Monkeybarry....you have to approach them with your own disinformation, simplistic rhetoric false flags and dog whistles!

Honesty, reasoning, empathy, factual information.....all bottom of the list and out of fashion.

Great innit. What a time to be alive.

 

[LutonSpurs]

I'm not typing it all again

I'll quote it

It's folly to dismiss it though. You can't fight feelings with facts.

His claim is overblown, but it does contain some truth. All emotion driven narratives do - to look at the extreme;
were the Jews responsible for Germany's post WWI issues? No.
Did Jewish people play a part in the activities that drove the feelings of despair within Germany? Absolutely.

The best response to people like Reform IMHO is to acknowledge the concern and suggest a path focused on tackling and eliminating all racism.
That immediately softens the position, acknowledges the issue, shines a light on the ridiculousness of extremism, and creates a position fascists can't handle - tackling real problems instead of dog whistling

Which concern should I acknowledge?

 

[monkeybarry]

I'll quote it



Which concern should I acknowledge?

That white people experience racism in the UK

 

[monkeybarry]

Exactly Monkeybarry....you have to approach them with your own disinformation, simplistic rhetoric false flags and dog whistles!

Honesty, reasoning, empathy, factual information.....all bottom of the list and out of fashion.

Great innit. What a time to be alive.

I don't think you do - although I do fear I'm wrong on that.
Diluting their message and suggesting reasonable solutions - that's like cryptonite to fascists; they need falacy and fear to survive. But have to recognise the emotions that drive their vote and the kernel of truth within the argument.

 

[LutonSpurs]

That white people experience racism in the UK

What? I only ever contested Zias claim that white people are the most racially oppressed in the UK. When did anyone say otherwise?

 

[monkeybarry]

What? I only ever contested Zias claim that white people are the most racially oppressed in the UK. When did anyone say otherwise?

Again, go and read my posts and your responses.

Specifically, but not exclusively,
"And giving even an inch to reform types is basically giving up on my values."

 

[LutonSpurs]

Again, go and read my posts and your responses.

Specifically, but not exclusively,
"And giving even an inch to reform types is basically giving up on my values."

That isn't the same as me saying white people don't experience racism. I know they do. And I've always said it. Your whole response to me is based on a thing I have not said or believed.

Sorry Barry. You are making no sense to me.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Hahaha

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There's a portion of posters on here who absolutely die on this hill. The level of dim needed to convince your self you are under apartheid here as a white person is special. ZIa isn't dim. He's feeding you this rage bait and the dim part is: the masses lapping it up.

It's folly to dismiss it though. You can't fight feelings with facts.

His claim is overblown, but it does contain some truth. All emotion driven narratives do - to look at the extreme;
were the Jews responsible for Germany's post WWI issues? No.
Did Jewish people play a part in the activities that drove the feelings of despair within Germany? Absolutely.

The best response to people like Reform IMHO is to acknowledge the concern and suggest a path focused on tackling and eliminating all racism.
That immediately softens the position, acknowledges the issue, shines a light on the ridiculousness of extremism, and creates a position fascists can't handle - tackling real problems instead of dog whistling

There is no demonstrable evidence for his claim. It has to be rejected as a lie and rage bait.

It isn't an over blown claim. It's an outright lie

 

[monkeybarry]

There is no demonstrable evidence for his claim. It has to be rejected as a lie and rage bait.

It isn't an over blown claim. It's an outright lie

Incorrect.
It is an overblown claim - the basis of the claim is that white people experience racism; this is true.
The substance of the claim is that they are the biggest victims: that is not true.

Reform present incorrect facts to garner feelings that votes. You can't fight feelings by dismissing legitimate claims (that white people experience racism) by shouting liar at someone - all that does is solidify their position that they are not listened to, and they then vote Reform.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Incorrect.
It is an overblown claim - the basis of the claim is that white people experience racism; this is true.
The substance of the claim is that they are the biggest victims: that is not true.

Reform present incorrect facts to garner feelings that votes. You can't fight feelings by dismissing legitimate claims (that white people experience racism) by shouting liar at someone - all that does is solidify their position that they are not listened to, and they then vote Reform.

I think we have an entirely different understanding about when an embellishment becomes a lie. I dismissed the lie. I never dismissed the other part. I'm not sure you are reading my posts.