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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Silly McSilly Face said:
Its a flippant remark to add some humour to the discussion I.e. "not every douchebag rocking up in a dinghy has to be treated as a refugee"
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The Trump approach...one might say. Marvellous.

I wouldn't label one woman or child coming on a boat a douchebag.

It's ok to dislike/avoid someone when they have revealed themselves to you by their actions or behaviour. That's due process.

Most people hate on other people because they hate their own lives (to some extent).
 
Looks like Labour are looking to change inheritance tax and capital gains in the budget, they've really messed things up and are just scrambling around now. This won't win them any votes and will just be a temporary fix, I had much higher expectations that they'd fix the foundations and put a long term plan in place but everything is far too reactive.

Ironically if they just came out and admitted some mistakes and raised income tax instead it would likely go down better.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
Its a flippant remark to add some humour to the discussion I.e. "not every douchebag rocking up in a dinghy has to be treated as a refugee"
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This shows your hatred for them. The fact you can't admit it is the issue here. And this what seems to be leading you to ignore the basic humanity of these people. I'd love it if you could see them as people just like us.
 
P.D. said:
Looks like Labour are looking to change inheritance tax and capital gains in the budget, they've really messed things up and are just scrambling around now. This won't win them any votes and will just be a temporary fix, I had much higher expectations that they'd fix the foundations and put a long term plan in place but everything is far too reactive.

Ironically if they just came out and admitted some mistakes and raised income tax instead it would likely go down better.
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Things out of their control have shifted about since coming in, and to some extent you should be prepared for that (although what's going on around the world is somewhat crazy and hard to foresee).
They had a contingency that's been gobbled up. But it's their self imposed fiscal rules that have backed them into a corner.
Undoubtedly we are at a re-invention point, undoubtedly most services are below par on a scale of 1-10, and that starting point has been handed to them.

The government services required for an adequate level of living (and I include things like water power rail ie not in full control of the gov) are more important than ever as more and more people are feeling the pinch and leaning on them as they can no longer bypass them within their household budget. It will be impossible to govern if you don't do something about it. I'm guessing that's what you would hope is a foundational plan.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Things out of their control have shifted about since coming in, and to some extent you should be prepared for that (although what's going on around the world is somewhat crazy and hard to foresee).
They had a contingency that's been gobbled up. But it's their self imposed fiscal rules that have backed them into a corner.
Undoubtedly we are at a re-invention point, undoubtedly most services are below par on a scale of 1-10, and that starting point has been handed to them.

The government services required for an adequate level of living (and I include things like water power rail ie not in full control of the gov) are more important than ever as more and more people are feeling the pinch and leaning on them as they can no longer bypass them within their household budget. It will be impossible to govern if you don't do something about it. I'm guessing that's what you would hope is a foundational plan.
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I think Starmers government have lost sight of their values and policies due to fear of Farage. And every time they try to be more Tory it back fires as people expect some humanity from Labour. I think all the ghoulish consultant types in the cabinet are totally not marketable.
 
Starmer really should have lost all respect when he went from Corbyn must be against Brexit to I support Brexit overnight. For me that's unforgivable. We all know the man is about as remain as you get. And now he masqueradesas a Brexit champion. Had he supported Corbyns EU scepticism then maybe we wouldn't have had the Boris mess. Maybe.
 
LutonSpurs said:
I think Starmers government have lost sight of their values and policies due to fear of Farage. And every time they try to be more Tory it back fires as people expect some humanity from Labour. I think all the ghoulish consultant types in the cabinet are totally not marketable.
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Strength in your own will and beliefs is paramount to crack anything in politics, but especially when the country is looking to you to usher in a change, a new direction.

I have sympathy in some respects for politicians as their job is scrutinised and picked apart like never before. No room to breathe.

Mostly an unimpressive bunch tbh
 
LutonSpurs said:
Alot of people don't realise that there are many parts of the world, where if by pure lottery, you were born there and lived with your family, you would be desperate to escape for a better life.

And then there are people who already have a safe place with resources to live. They don't have to escape. They can just come.

Ultimately the discourse has dehumanised some because they were unlucky to be born in a poor place and have darker skin.

They are just other humans who don't have safety and resources. But the fact we were just lucky shouldn't drive us to hate those who don't have any luck.
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Bingo mate.

It makes me smile when I realise how oblivious most people are to the lottery that is 'where you're born'. And that second bold-faced line? So SO true.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
Its a flippant remark to add some humour to the discussion I.e. "not every douchebag rocking up in a dinghy has to be treated as a refugee"
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Well you won't like what I'm going to say here, but I don't think there's ANY place for flippancy when it comes to the plight of people who feel they have to make such horrific passage in order to survive. It's not humorous in any way.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
I agree with a lot of what you've said there. But I can tell you from experience that it really does not separate the tossers from non tosser refugees. Amongst the numbers of people coming here out of desperation are those wanted or convicted of serious crimes in their home countries who are facing hard labour in prisons that would he unrecognisable in terms of safety and comfort to a western prison or the death penalty. So they are desperate and motivated. But they are very dangerous people all the same.
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I am sure there are bad apples. There are everywhere. The important thing is not to present the discourse in a way which leaves the average non-engaged person immediately thinking 'they're all criminals' which sadly is the foothold that appear to be taking root with regard to migrants.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Strength in your own will and beliefs is paramount to crack anything in politics, but especially when the country is looking to you to usher in a change, a new direction.

I have sympathy in some respects for politicians as their job is scrutinised and picked apart like never before. No room to breathe.

Mostly an unimpressive bunch tbh
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The majority dont help themselves by always getting caught with their hands in the tilk time and time again

Be nice to have a set who genuinely want to improve this country
 
LutonSpurs said:
This shows your hatred for them. The fact you can't admit it is the issue here. And this what seems to be leading you to ignore the basic humanity of these people. I'd love it if you could see them as people just like us.
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I mean the way i see it is that i responded to someone actually saying they don't understand why they are referred to as illegsl immigrants and i'm simply trying to help based on my qualifications and experience explain the terminology and situation legally. This riles some of you up and you all pile in and it ends up in "youre an ignorant racist and you can't disguise your hate". I mean if you want to think that what they're doing is perfectly legal and i'm saying what i'm saying because I don't see them as people and I hate them then go for it. I can tell you i was just trying to help but this whole conversation has been turned into an emotion filled ideology debate.
 
thfcsteff said:
I am sure there are bad apples. There are everywhere. The important thing is not to present the discourse in a way which leaves the average non-engaged person immediately thinking 'they're all criminals' which sadly is the foothold that appear to be taking root with regard to migrants.
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The ones that come here irregularly are all criminals. They're dealing with and funding criminal gangs. Thats the only way they get on these boats in the first place. Do you think that people just rock up in France and say "can I go to England"? Not a single person gets on one of those boats without some form of connection (either established or developed) and trust (not to mention significant payment in cash or services) to serious criminals. And dont think for a minute those criminals dont call on those people to fulfil their debts and loyalty if they make it to the UK and get established here. And by extension this very lucrative trade fuels the trade in guns, drugs, human trafficking, slavery. And by entering the country without leave they are committing a direct criminal offence under this country's law also. So they are all technically criminals at that point.

Now if it was down to me I'd fund an asylum application process internationally in every British consulate and embassy. That way genuine refugees have a legal route to claim asylum in the UK without having to engage criminals and engage in extremely dangerous and exhausting journeys. You also then know that everyone that rocks up here irregularly can immediately be shipped back out.....
 
thfcsteff said:
Well you won't like what I'm going to say here, but I don't think there's ANY place for flippancy when it comes to the plight of people who feel they have to make such horrific passage in order to survive. It's not humorous in any way.
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There is a place for flippancy when people are jumping on someone just trying to help with understanding and getting riled up. Its not laughing at the subject, its poking fun at the debate.....as I said, the legal guidance in respect of ruling out asylum applications pretty much applues to every douchebag arriving on a boat. Does that say every person arriving on a boat is a douchebag or does it say every douchebag arriving on a boat is a criminal? I think what's happened here is that some people haven't liked my explanation of the facts and have instead gone down the route of analysing language and words and finding stuff that offends them.
 
In other news, Reform UK have hit a 10 point lead for the first time in Politico.EU's UK poll of polls for August 2025. There's a long way to go until the next election but a rapidly growing journey back for both Labour and Conservatives.....
 
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