Well, the UNRWA was sure enough to dismiss some of them. Which conveniently meant no further investigation was required.
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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
Think it's a complex issue that I don't have a strong opinion on either way. Can see why it would be a release for many but could also see it being abusedBe interested to see peoples thoughts on this bill that passed today
Assisted dying vote live updates: MPs vote in favour of historic bill after emotional debate
The bill passes the first stage in the Commons but will be followed by months of parliamentary activity before it becomes a law.www.bbc.co.uk
There are some reasonably reliable ways to get to the real numbers. What we do know is that (obviously) both the Hamas numbers and the UNRWA numbers are flimflam.
The numbers of dead in Gaza don’t add up – and there is no easy explanation
A disproportionate number of male UNRWA workers have died, raising difficult questions about the conduct of the war and its death toll
www.telegraph.co.uk
Even if we take the lowest estimated number of combatants killed and the largest estimated number of civilians, that's a civilian to combatant ratio of about 2:1 - realistically it's likely far lower. Most estimates are between 1.5 and 1.8.
When the UK & the US fought ISIS, the ratio was 2.5. According to the UN, the global average is over 9.
By anyone's measures, Israel is protecting civilians better than most, in a battle designed to create the highest possible civilian casualty rate for propaganda purposes. Propaganda for which you have been taken hook, line and sinker.
johnola
Jermaine Jenas
My Dad is currently starving himself to death in a bed in a nursing home because he is not allowed to make a more measured departure.Be interested to see peoples thoughts on this bill that passed today
Assisted dying vote live updates: MPs vote in favour of historic bill after emotional debate
The bill passes the first stage in the Commons but will be followed by months of parliamentary activity before it becomes a law.www.bbc.co.uk
He had been pretty clear to all and sundry for a long period that he just wants to take a pill.
I want assisted dying for myself and I believe this bill to be a humane step forward.
Further to this as it stands, we should all consider making a living wills so that our families can be absolutely certain they were instructed with our blessings to turn off hopeless life support should we incur an immediate brain injury.
Lost Mango
Pascal Chimbonda
UN completes investigation on UNRWA staff
The UN said on Monday that nine staff working for its Palestine refugee agency UNRWA will be sacked because they may have been involved in the 7 October 2023 Hamas-led attacks against Israel.news.un.org
Israel accused 19 UNRWA members of staff of being involved in the Hamas attacks last October.
This initiated a UN investigation which found:
- In one case, they found no evidence supporting the staff members involvement.
- In nine cases they found that the evidence was insufficient to prove involvement.
- In the case of the remaining nine, the UN found that the evidence supported the accusations and the nine staff members were sacked.
Hardly consistent with it being "Israeli lies"
Maybe not lies but certainly massively and deliberately overplayed by the Israelis and their media mouthparts to create an excuse for the cutting of all aid to starving people.
That is 9, possibly 18, out of 30,000 - hardly an organisation taken over by Hamas.
Also all of them had been vetted by the IDF and Israeli Security, so can you hold UNWRA responsible for employing them when they had been green-lit by the Israelis?
Lost Mango
Pascal Chimbonda
There are some reasonably reliable ways to get to the real numbers. What we do know is that (obviously) both the Hamas numbers and the UNRWA numbers are flimflam.
The numbers of dead in Gaza don’t add up – and there is no easy explanation
A disproportionate number of male UNRWA workers have died, raising difficult questions about the conduct of the war and its death toll
Even if we take the lowest estimated number of combatants killed and the largest estimated number of civilians, that's a civilian to combatant ratio of about 2:1 - realistically it's likely far lower. Most estimates are between 1.5 and 1.8.
When the UK & the US fought ISIS, the ratio was 2.5. According to the UN, the global average is over 9.
By anyone's measures, Israel is protecting civilians better than most, in a battle designed to create the highest possible civilian casualty rate for propaganda purposes. Propaganda for which you have been taken hook, line and sinker.
"Reliable" source as always, an Israeli writing for the Daily Telegraph.
How about from the Lancet:
By June 19, 2024, 37 396 people had been killed in the Gaza Strip since the attack by Hamas and the Israeli invasion in October, 2023, according to the Gaza Health Ministry, as reported by the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.1 The Ministry's figures have been contested by the Israeli authorities, although they have been accepted as accurate by Israeli intelligence services, the UN, and WHO. These data are supported by independent analyses, comparing changes in the number of deaths of UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) staff with those reported by the Ministry, which found claims of data fabrication implausible.4
It isn't really surprising. Aid agencies and charities are a known route of terrorist financing and supply. The IRA used to be funded via charity donations in the US, for example.
UNWRA is a large organisation working in a high risk area for terrorism and terrorist financing and it is the main route for getting money and goods into Gaza from abroad. Hamas couldn't have built the significant infrastructure and resources it managed to accumulate without significant help from UNWRA. That's almost a given
That's why everyone pulled their funding following the Hamas attacks.
The question was, has UNWRA simply been infiltrated by bad apples, or were senior leadership complicit/turned a blind eye.
While Israel believes the latter (and has designated UNWRA a terrorist organisation), everyone else accepts the UN investigation, which was that UNWRA had clearly been compromised and utilised by Hamas, but it had not been taken over by Hamas.
Mikey10
Jimmy Neighbour
I’m very sorry to hear that about your dad. I hope that he is not in pain. Take care of yourself and your family.
Mikey10
Jimmy Neighbour
It’s unbelievable. I mean I know the offence took place a decade ago, but why didn’t she deny that she’d done anything wrong for at least a fortnight, then seek to change the ministerial code in a way that would allow her to stay in office, before spending a week saying that the press were wasting time on something that’s a distraction from the business of government, before eventually being forced to resign whilst still denying any culpability?Are there any MP's not on the take ??
Transport secretary Louise Haigh quits after fraud offence revealed
Haigh's departure is the first cabinet resignation under Sir Keir Starmer's government.www.bbc.co.uk
Amateur.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
I dont think theres any evidence from countries that already have it that abuse happens. They've all been civilised enough to have similar strong safeguards as we are propsing. Its just about giving people that want it choice.
And blimey, wasnt parliament really grown up yesterday. Such a contrast to the past decade. Obviously a solemn subject. But votes of conscious/free votes deliver much better politics than whipping
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
That's ok then
Why's it not OK? In fact unless you see HMRC as a charity looking for "donations" you'd have to be a special kind of idiot to sit there thinking "hmmm I'm thinking of passing my land to my son, but do you know what, I'll just wait until the tax rises have gone through to do it so I leave him with less money"
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
The fact that he obviously was privvy to future information about the tax and abused that to his own gain
It's insider trading
Oh so you support what China is doing in the Spatley islands, Buhtan, India, Hong Kong, and Aftica..
Spytech is the last thing ypu need to worry abouy.
For the sake of the planet? China one of the big CO2 producers?
The last thing we should be doing is supporting China.
Did you read the article?
It mentions that letter to the Lancet, points out that it wasn't peer reviewed and then uses data analysis to show why it can't be right.
Even so, it's that number which leads to the 2:1 ratio - far better than most modern conflicts.
Lost Mango
Pascal Chimbonda
I did and it mentions a different Lancet article one in December (the non-peer reviewed letter rather than July paper).
The key thing I was highlighting though was the fact the Israeli security forces have significantly less qualms with the data than you do.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Same, I got Parkinson's and despite lots of expensive treatment it's starting to take hold a lot more. So it's an issue I think about a lot.
My wife is against it but as soon as I'm bed bound then that's when I want out. The are lots of checks in place to make sure its not abused.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
clam should be in prison.