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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

SpiderSpurs said:
Looks like a cash for questions 'scandal' incoming, involving Labour MP Navendu Mishra.
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Normally, a government has a honeymoon period. With this lot they've decided not to fudge about and get right on with the blatant corruption, mass protest and generally p***ing everyone off while collapsing the economy (market analysts now predicting UK inflation to hit 3% next year)

"Siri, show me what would have happened had Liz Truss lasted longer than a lettuce"
 
markysimmo said:
Absolutely outstanding Kier

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Can't say I've been overly impressed with labour, but I don't think they've been terrible, but what exactly are people expecting?
The country is a dumpster fire and has been for a number years, the economy is under stress for reasons outwith their control (as it was with the tories), no party was coming in and turning it around in a few months.
 
P.D. said:
Do any of you follow Dan Neidle on twitter? He's actually a labour advisor but writes really good tax info. Worth reading this whole thread and puts in perspective how dumb the employers NI increase was.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1859570425128165458
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I don't, but know of him. He's a tax lawyer isn't he? The one who outed Zahawi about his Gibraltar scheme? I think that sums it up though, that Labour members that know how the economy works/are in business are pulling their hair out.
glasgowspur said:
Can't say I've been overly impressed with labour, but I don't think they've been terrible, but what exactly are people expecting?
The country is a dumpster fire and has been for a number years, the economy is under stress for reasons outwith their control (as it was with the tories), no party was coming in and turning it around in a few months.
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Disagree. Sunak and Hunt were doing an excellent job on the economy. Things were improving, inflation falling, growth outperforming expectations, confidence increasing. The UK was genuinely seen as a shining beacon of economic stability in the west. Labour had a golden opportunity as this international confidence increased after the election as they thought they'd continue the economic policies, but with a huge majority and an end to the infighting and scandal that plagued the tories in the last few years. That confidence has been wiped out very quickly, the UK is being risk assessed downwards, growth forecasts are down, growth IS down in the first quarter of the new government, inflation is rising - its direction of travel - Sunak/Hunt still had a long way to go, but were going in the right direction. Starmer/Reeves have hijacked the vehicle and have accidentally stuck in in reverse.
 
Kompakted said:
I don't, but know of him. He's a tax lawyer isn't he? The one who outed Zahawi about his Gibraltar scheme? I think that sums it up though, that Labour members that know how the economy works/are in business are pulling their hair out.

Disagree. Sunak and Hunt were doing an excellent job on the economy. Things were improving, inflation falling, growth outperforming expectations, confidence increasing. The UK was genuinely seen as a shining beacon of economic stability in the west. Labour had a golden opportunity as this international confidence increased after the election as they thought they'd continue the economic policies, but with a huge majority and an end to the infighting and scandal that plagued the tories in the last few years. That confidence has been wiped out very quickly, the UK is being risk assessed downwards, growth forecasts are down, growth IS down in the first quarter of the new government, inflation is rising - its direction of travel - Sunak/Hunt still had a long way to go, but were going in the right direction. Starmer/Reeves have hijacked the vehicle and have accidentally stuck in in reverse.
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The conservatives were absolutely terrible and we all know full well they had not come clean about the difficult national finances.

Brexit then especially lockdown is the background, there is little point naming and shaming individuals.

But be absolutely certain they would have been wholly hamstrung had they been elected- but they were roundly thrashed and deservedly so.

The issue I have with Labour is that they are sucking up national wealth to build a bigger state which surely we all know is hopelessly inefficient. The taxes are impacting private sector workers who are already at a massive disadvantage.
 
glasgowspur said:
Can't say I've been overly impressed with labour, but I don't think they've been terrible, but what exactly are people expecting?
The country is a dumpster fire and has been for a number years, the economy is under stress for reasons outwith their control (as it was with the tories), no party was coming in and turning it around in a few months.
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4 3/4 years till an election too, so why do they care. tinkle off the right wing press now, then land their big successes later in the decade.
 
johnola said:
The issue I have with Labour is that they are sucking up national wealth to build a bigger state which surely we all know is hopelessly inefficient. The taxes are impacting private sector workers who are already at a massive disadvantage.
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That rebalance is massively needed. Much of the public sector is literally rationing heating and lighting and toilet roll, they've been so neglected for so long.
 
Kompakted said:
But as per scara's point, there's so much noise around poverty and what constitutes it, and the definitions and methodology changes so often, it's become almost impossible to track. That's down to government and the civil service.

You see you admit yourself that things are incomparably better than since Victorian times, which was only actually just over 120 years ago. You've also said that we can't really use the 1980s as a comparison because again, things have moved on so much.

Yet we have so many people out there that talk about the evil of neoliberalism and free-market capitalism, which largely originated and grew in the Victorian era and how Thatcherism destroyed the country by making the working classes swap pit-work, industrial disease and unheated back to back housing for warm call centres, retail and new-build housing association stock.

I mean, I saw some twonk face about a year ago that claimed Britain had never had a more unequal society. Thought briefly about a brief Alan Partridge style medieval history lesson before thinking better of it and asking what the meeting agenda was instead.
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Poverty has absolutely not become ‘almost impossible to track’ unless you want it to be.
Inequity should be measured by the present not the past.
How is the equity of society today?
We’ve discussed ‘free-market capitalism’ before; I referred to the current model as ‘steroided’ capitalism. The US public is about to find out what happens when you give a bunch of billionaires carte blanche over a nation; are you going to seriously tell me that a sense of benevolent duty will see those characters magically improve the lives of EVERYONE? Give me a break.

Genuine question. Have you ever been in a situation of poverty? If not poverty, hand-to-mouth life?
 
thfcsteff said:
Genuine question. Have you ever been in a situation of poverty? If not poverty, hand-to-mouth life?
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Here's a more relevant question.

What proportion of those described as "in poverty" by Labour, charities, etc are actually struggling to the extent you describe?

Now let's put that to one side for a minute and pretend this "relative poverty" measure actually matters or means anything (it doesn't). Would you say that policies making employers less likely to employ people (link) and policies making it more expensive to employ people (link) are going to improve or exacerbate the "problem"?
 
scaramanga said:
Here's a more relevant question.

What proportion of those described as "in poverty" by Labour, charities, etc are actually struggling to the extent you describe?

Now let's put that to one side for a minute and pretend this "relative poverty" measure actually matters or means anything (it doesn't). Would you say that policies making employers less likely to employ people (link) and policies making it more expensive to employ people (link) are going to improve or exacerbate the "problem"?
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If your own eyes don't tell you, this might help.

https://www.jrf.org.uk/uk-poverty-2...ext=More than 1 in 5,nearly 3 in 10) children

It depends on who is employing and what sort of business they want to run. If it is one where workers should be squeezed like teabags and squeezed again until they have nothing, then indeed, the 'problem' might well be exacerbated. Everything in that first link is excellent. Zero hours contracts are a disgrace.
 
Kompakted said:
I don't, but know of him. He's a tax lawyer isn't he? The one who outed Zahawi about his Gibraltar scheme? I think that sums it up though, that Labour members that know how the economy works/are in business are pulling their hair out.
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Yeah tax and policy, his commentary is pretty neutral and easy to understand. Income tax is the most progressive tax we have, much more effective to raise it. Instead the greatest impact is now on low earners. Likely there's more to come as well.
 
IMG-20241121-WA0015.thumb.jpg.0a56686cf210fc0ed162e40e5292152d.jpg
 
thfcsteff said:
If your own eyes don't tell you, this might help.

https://www.jrf.org.uk/uk-poverty-2024-the-essential-guide-to-understanding-poverty-in-the-uk#:~:text=More than 1 in 5,nearly 3 in 10) children

It depends on who is employing and what sort of business they want to run. If it is one where workers should be squeezed like teabags and squeezed again until they have nothing, then indeed, the 'problem' might well be exacerbated. Everything in that first link is excellent. Zero hours contracts are a disgrace.
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The point he is making is that they're squeezing businesses like teabags. 95% of employers in the UK are SME businesses that are operating on or within the margins of economic peaks and troughs. They've already had covid to contend with and if they were exporting/importing from the EU they've had the Brexit related changes to deal with. Now they're being clobbered and they're either going to have to put prices up, wages down or let people go. Most analysts believe all 3 will happen. Reeves herself has had to admit her budget will hit "working people" in contradiction to her election pledges.

Zero hours contracts are not a disgrace, they're a very useful option for many. I myself had a zero-hours sales contract while I was at uni. If I had a spare afternoon after morning lectures I could go down to the office grab some new merchandise examples and go out to clients in the area and try and get them to stock them. I earned a % of whatever I sold. It was great for my circumstances at the time.
 
Gutter Boy said:
That rebalance is massively needed. Much of the public sector is literally rationing heating and lighting and toilet roll, they've been so neglected for so long.
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By "rebalance" what you mean is that Labour have clobbered everyone with taxes to give more money to public sector union members? Because whatever extra money is being generated will be going straight into funding those pay deals, and actually they'll have to borrow more just to fund them, particularly as the tax and wage burden they've imposed is going to slow the economy down and reduce tax revenue.
 
Kompakted said:
Normally, a government has a honeymoon period. With this lot they've decided not to fudge about and get right on with the blatant corruption, mass protest and generally p***ing everyone off while collapsing the economy (market analysts now predicting UK inflation to hit 3% next year)

"Siri, show me what would have happened had Liz Truss lasted longer than a lettuce"
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The levels of judgement between the 2 parties is so funny to observe.

The conservatives spent 14 years deconstructing the entire fabric of society for their gain. They borrowed more money in 14 years than this nation borrowed in 2000 years. Yet on their watch we had 20 thousand less police, the smallest army since Cromwell times, you would die waiting for an ambulance let alone getting an operation done. The corruption was off the scale. We burnt 8 billion of useless ppe stock they bought off their mates last week!. The literally wrecked the economy. I could go on and on.

But...but..but Labour have been in power for 5 months now! Why haven't they fixed everything? WAH WAH WAH. It's just so tragic to see how the right wing press and media have gas lit the lower orders so much that they can't see how hard this job is going to be. Starmer isn't very good but he is a details guy, a serious politician. It's the best we can hope for after the mess we were left with after nearly 15 years of nation wreckers at the helm.

When I say the likes of philp. Dorries, Patel, Truss etc on TV arguing they weren't given the right opportunities to succeed it makes me despair for the intelligence of the public. Can't they see what they did?
 
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