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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

I think it is impossible to have a credible view on how to tackle extremism unless you try to understand the conditions which cause it. And unless society is prepared to address the issues which give extremism the oxygen it gets, we are going in circles. It is tragic.
 
SpurMeUp said:
While there may be some groups who are silently ambivalent I prefer to see it in the opposite way: the positive forward thinking groups who make a point of actively condemning radical Islam whenever the subject arises.
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So you think I should actively condemn this as I am Muslim as a solution to the problem? And if I don't actively come on this forum and condemn every terrorist attack by a Muslim you would assume I'm part of the problem?
 
SpurMeUp said:
I linked to a study related to it. Here's the abstract:

Abstract
This study analyzed the contents of three of the most popular Arabic-language online message boards regarding the attacks of September 11, 2001 on the United States. Although terrorists claimed that the attacks were committed in the name of Islam, those who posted messages on all three forums rejected this claim. More than 43% of the messages condemned the attacks as a criminal act of terrorism that contradicts the core teachings of Islam. Some 30% saw some justification behind the attacks, even if they felt sorry for the victims and their families. However, those participants viewed the attacks as a political, rather than a religious, issue.


Muslim groups have a powerful voice. They don't need to act, they can keep themselves to themselves and I respect that. It is thorny subject and I wouldn't criticise anyone for staying out the firing line. But some choose to assert things in a positive way. They are courageous and I have huge respect for them.
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Where was the study done and when?
 
Dude SpurMeUp you have gone from all of Islam needs to condemn it or they are the reason it happens. Then some ambivalent silent ones are the problem. To then they aren't a problem but you respect the ones who do more. You are making zero sense. You are changing your stance post by post as you continue make awfully thought out points. Stop for your own sake
 
LutonSpurs said:
So you think I should actively condemn this as I am Muslim as a solution to the problem? And if I don't actively come on this forum and condemn every terrorist attack by a Muslim you would assume I'm part of the problem?
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No no, you’ve been covered as ‘someone to be respected’ however perhaps in need of a little courage.
Laugh mate…you’re better off doing so.
 
In fairness to @SpurMeUp, it seems like he was looking for an open conversation and made the (in my opinion anyway) misstep with Chinese re-education example.

I personally think that the discussion has now veered into uncomfortable territory where it could look like a pile-on, so perhaps we’re best moving on with the hope that this has indeed been a massive misunderstanding. Thoughts folks?
 
thfcsteff said:
Where was the study done and when?
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I am only citing a study because day-to-day observation is less easy to convey. Here's a link. https://academic.oup.com/jcmc/article/12/3/1063/4583035

I'll bow out, I hope I didn't offend anyone, and that people can see positives in challenging what is accepted. I have huge respect for Islam and hope more people can understand it for what it is for 99% of its adherents; rather than the representations we see in the media which is normally associated with extremism.
 
thfcsteff said:
In fairness to @SpurMeUp, it seems like he was looking for an open conversation and made the (in my opinion anyway) misstep with Chinese re-education example.

I personally think that the discussion has now veered into uncomfortable territory where it could look like a pile-on, so perhaps we’re best moving on with the hope that this has indeed been a massive misunderstanding. Thoughts folks?
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Yeah. He said something stupid and rather than admitting it when asked what he meant, he's doubled down. He's continued doubling down and found himself saying some really extreme brick.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I am only citing a study because day-to-day observation is less easy to convey. Here's a link. https://academic.oup.com/jcmc/article/12/3/1063/4583035

I'll bow out, I hope I didn't offend anyone, and that people can see positives in challenging what is accepted. I have huge respect for Islam and hope more people can understand it for what it is for 99% of its adherents.
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Thanks for the link, I will look into it later. I did note it is from 2007, and as such so much has changed but regardless, it will be good to take a look.
 
LutonSpurs said:
Dude SpurMeUp you have gone from all of Islam needs to condemn it or they are the reason it happens. Then some ambivalent silent ones are the problem. To then they aren't a problem but you respect the ones who do more. You are making zero sense. You are changing your stance post by post as you continue make awfully thought out points. Stop for your own sake
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Re-read, and you'll see that is simply not true. Never mind. I am truly sorry I went here. But I respect your points.
 
thfcsteff said:
Thanks for the link, I will look into it later. I did note it is from 2007, and as such so much has changed but regardless, it will be good to take a look.
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It is worth noting that people post on message boards as individuals. SpurMeUp has been calling on "Muslim groups" to condemn Islamist terrorism. Studies into message boards have nothing to do with "Muslim groups".
 
milo said:
Yeah. He said something stupid and rather than admitting it when asked what he meant, he's doubled down. He's continued doubling down and found himself saying some really extreme brick.
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What extreme brick!? That is a slanderous unsubstantiated accusation. You would not accept another accusing you of the same.
 
JerusalemMan said:
If that were to happen, within a short time, almost everyone would be begging for a return to the way things were
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correct. And this is relevant to @Lilbaz point about philosophy and @scaramanga previous points. Friedrich Nietzsche The darling of the atheists (and a brilliant mind for that matter) when he proclaimed “the death of ghod” he also said some thing like:

there will not be enough water in the world to wash away the blood because of this

And The capatalist system with all its many faults have still in part brought us here, the best time in human history to exist. Is it perfect? Fück no, and we can continue to improve but let us not throw everything away. Same with religion it played a major part in bringing us to where we are today
 
Robspur12 said:
Dear oh dear. As if Muslims are a homogeneous group of people with one set of thoughts and values. I’m a Catholic and my good friend is Anglican, some adherents of both religions hold abhorrent views toward homosexuals in the name of their religion. As I am sure there are atheists who do too.
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I never said they were. I never said that all muslims hate homosexuals. Someone said that islam is about love, tollerance blah blah. I just pointed out that if you were a muslim who rejected their religion and became homosexual. You might not feel that way.
 
DTA said:
correct. And this is relevant to @Lilbaz point about philosophy and @scaramanga previous points. Friedrich Nietzsche The darling of the atheists (and a brilliant mind for that matter) when he proclaimed “the death of ghod” he also said some thing like:

there will not be enough water in the world to wash away the blood because of this

And The capatalist system with all its many faults have still in part brought us here, the best time in human history to exist. Is it perfect? Fück no, and we can continue to improve but let us not throw everything away. Same with religion it played a major part in bringing us to where we are today
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Have we ever had a capitalist system though? We might call it such but we have socialist principles in there. Police, fire, roads...

We are somewhere in between the 2. Or 4 if we go by the political compass.
 
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