Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[SpurMeUp]

I never said that about Honda and again HONDA IS NOT LEAVING DUE TO BREXIT

The one biggest complaint in the travel industry is not being able to set lower VAT rates to attract more tourism, thats an absolute fact of life, the head of the Travel Association bangs on about it yearly so yeh it would be a major plus.

Yeah yeah we know, It's just a freak coincidence on the eve of Brexit, as is Dyson moving, Sony, finance jobs etc.

It is a fact of life that we can lower VAT rates now to 15% and save 5% - now within the EU. You stated this above, I learnt this from you, so its not like you don't understand it. Why aren't we lowering VAT now then? We are free to, why don't we? Why haven't we done it previously? Can you hand on heart say that leaving the EU will lead to lower VAT, and that is the benifit of Brexit, when we could do it now?

At what point do you say, okay, the major oppotunities I mentioned for services and tourism from Brexit, I can't actually come up with any?

 

[SpurMeUp]

EU single market rules mean Britain can't bail out private companies as its seen as giving a compentative edge. We couldn't bail out Tata directly

You know that we the people own the Royal Bank of Scotland, and parts of other banks, after the government bailed them out? How did they do this while in the EU?

Please explain this https://www.theguardian.com/business/2009/jan/21/car-industry-french-government-fears To me it looks like the French government bailed out both Peugot and Renult while they were part of the EU. Cheeky sods!

I admire your perseverence, and I know you just think I'm wrong, and its project this and that. You think Brexit offers something, but take a step back, look at the evidence, maybe it does not? If Brexit does offer something, you must be able to outline it.

 

[the dza]

I was being facetious, sorry!
I can’t vote for Corbyn’s extreme leftwing cult!
Jeremy is not electable.

What is extreme about a mixed economy, with utilities in public ownership, increased workers rights and funded education for youngsters? None of these policies are outside of the mainstream in comparable western democracies.

That this is painted as extreme just goes to show how far to the right most of the media are imo. I don't remember a single "extreme" policy in the last Labour Party manifesto.

 

[ShipOfTheseus]

What is extreme about a mixed economy, with utilities in public ownership, increased workers rights and funded education for youngsters? None of these policies are outside of the mainstream in comparable western democracies.

That this is painted as extreme just goes to show how far to the right most of the media are imo. I don't remember a single "extreme" policy in the last Labour Party manifesto.

It’s not really about policy, it’s about positions, language and principles. Policies are a very small component of retail politics.

 

[SpurMeUp]

The only reason Honda built cars in the UK is to avoid external tariffs. No other reason.

Compared to most places around the world, the UK workforce is unmotivated, unreliable, over compensated, inefficient, resistant to change and technology, undereducated, has a long history of union involvement and full of what rights they believe they're due with no consideration for their employers.

Nobody in their right mind would set up in the UK just for the sake of manufacturing in the UK.

And yet for 30 odd years we've been pretty good at it. We have great engineering skills, specialist F1 teams, sports car teams, mass production. It has worked well. So much so that 2016 was the most successful year to date for UK automotive industry (measured by output). So I don't agree. If it had been so woeful why would these companies have stayed here? It's not like our wages are cheaper than elesewhere.

Most UK manufactured cars are exported, helping our trade deficit, and the industry has provided significant UK jobs. For every 1 job in the car plant they say there are 4 other jobs created in related industries.

 

[the dza]

It’s not really about policy, it’s about positions, language and principles. Policies are a very small component of retail politics.

That's why I think Corbyn was elected by members in the first place (the same members who would have elected David Miliband if there was OMOV for that leadership election). Based on his principles/language/positions, he was trusted to actually attempt to deliver popular policies, such as renationalisation. He believes in it.

And it's the policies that are the motivation for the media to attack Corbyn from day 1.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I was being facetious, sorry!
I can’t vote for Corbyn’s extreme leftwing cult!
Jeremy is not electable.

I know you were. It may seem odd because I am a little more to the right, but I am going to vote Corbyn because he is so different and of course anti the EU. Farage is right about the EU and it is an important thing to be right on but I am looking for more.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Or it is the kick up the arse this country needs to get itself on its feet. I have always said hard work is good for the soul, you either go the education route and get proper skills or you work your balls off in a manual job. I never did the education route yet still made a very good income and life for myself. The are far to many wanting an easy ride in life.

I keep trying to drum this into my boy who wants to be a musician then a chef then an artist. He can do what he wants but he better work his fcuking socks off. Do not mind if he becomes gay or a muslim but he better work his fcuking socks off.

What about a Gay Muslim? If you were a cross dressing gay Muslim would you wear a hijab?

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Who knows maybe we will see you at the lane in one of these next season https://www.redbubble.com/people/du...gPb9YhkJch07q58HG1mrxCVHwztvIMJxoCOiwQAvD_BwE

 

[SpurMeUp]

What is extreme about a mixed economy, with utilities in public ownership, increased workers rights and funded education for youngsters? None of these policies are outside of the mainstream in comparable western democracies.

That this is painted as extreme just goes to show how far to the right most of the media are imo. I don't remember a single "extreme" policy in the last Labour Party manifesto.

That is the problem with Corbyn. It is his histroy, what he represents to the establisment, and how he leads his party...the reality of his policies will never get a fair viewing because of him. Therein is the problem unfortunately. A shame because at this moment in time, the country desperately needs a statemans-like leader. The door is open for Labour.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Who knows maybe we will see you at the lane in one of these next season https://www.redbubble.com/people/du...gPb9YhkJch07q58HG1mrxCVHwztvIMJxoCOiwQAvD_BwE

I'd wear it. Would you get in this?

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

I was being facetious, sorry!
I can’t vote for Corbyn’s extreme leftwing cult!
Jeremy is not electable.

Tell me, what is extreme about taking rail and water back into public control? What is extreme about funding public health and education properly? What is extreme about treating people on the breadline with a bit more empathy?

 

[the dza]

That is the problem with Corbyn. It is his histroy, what he represents to the establisment, and how he leads his party...the reality of his policies will never get a fair viewing because of him. Therein is the problem unfortunately. A shame because at this moment in time, the country desperately needs a statemans-like leader. The door is open for Labour.

You could well be right. When he first came along in the leadership race, I saw him as a bit of a reset button, I never really envisaged that he would become PM. Just take the party in a different direction and hand off to someone else. And then it turned out that Labour made some gains in 2017 and, in reality, aren't that far off from getting into government (note, I don't say with a majority).

But again, the policies and potential legislation that'd come out of a Corbyn government aren't extreme. It's just shrill nonsense to suggest otherwise.

 

[ringo]

i think I've missed a trick in my assessment of the way Brexit is panning out. i.e Article 50 extension vs No Deal.
Maybe the actual end objective of the ERG, or big money behind Leave is not Brexit per se - but the break up of the EU.
Maybe what we are in the middle of is an existential struggle for the survival of the EU. With the calculation that No Deal will at very least destabilise EU. Cause some countries to break ranks. Which is possibly in the interests of Russia, the US, and China. Or is that reading too much into it all.

 

[Rorschach]

i think I've missed a trick in my assessment of the way Brexit is panning out. i.e Article 50 extension vs No Deal.
Maybe the actual end objective of the ERG, or big money behind Leave is not Brexit per se - but the break up of the EU.
Maybe what we are in the middle of is an existential struggle for the survival of the EU. With the calculation that No Deal will at very least destabilise EU. Cause some countries to break ranks. Which is possibly in the interests of Russia, the US, and China. Or is that reading too much into it all.

It is certainly an objective of Russia to disrupt the stability and cohesion of the EU project. Most of the brexiters on this thread are actually Russian bots.

 

[ringo]

It is certainly an objective of Russia to disrupt the stability and cohesion of the EU project. Most of the brexiters on this thread are actually Russian bots.

Я с тобой товарищ.

 

[Rorschach]

Я с тобой товарищ.

охуити́тельно

 

[StephenH]

What is extreme about a mixed economy, with utilities in public ownership, increased workers rights and funded education for youngsters? None of these policies are outside of the mainstream in comparable western democracies.

That this is painted as extreme just goes to show how far to the right most of the media are imo. I don't remember a single "extreme" policy in the last Labour Party manifesto.

With a proper leader and a more attractive party they great!
Under a Corbyn lead party its pointless!

 

[the dza]

With a proper leader and a more attractive party they great!

Right. So not extreme then.

 

[StephenH]

I know you were. It may seem odd because I am a little more to the right, but I am going to vote Corbyn because he is so different and of course anti the EU. Farage is right about the EU and it is an important thing to be right on but I am looking for more.

He is different but I don’t think being a poor leader is going to hack it!