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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

I made the same assumption; quite a logical one.
I'm intrigued to know what you meant if our assumptions were wrong.

Well there is huge investment coming into the UK. You guys keep saying its all doom and gloom. Its obviously not when there is huge investment being made in the UK still.

As I said on a previous post Tech investment has doubled, we have a good imployment spike in the last 12 months and the UK is still number one for FDI so if Brexit is such a bad thing why are we still reporting growth and investment?

Surely the whole place shuts down, the skies turn black and we all live on the breadline (if remains PR campaign was to be believed)
 
Well there is huge investment coming into the UK. You guys keep saying its all doom and gloom. Its obviously not when there is huge investment being made in the UK still.

As I said on a previous post Tech investment has doubled, we have a good imployment spike in the last 12 months and the UK is still number one for FDI so if Brexit is such a bad thing why are we still reporting growth and investment?

Surely the whole place shuts down, the skies turn black and we all live on the breadline (if remains PR campaign was to be believed)

To state the obvious, the loses with outfits like Sony, Japanese car makers and all car investment are due to pending Brexit. Uncertaincy and worries about a no deal exit. It's a reaction to possible Brexit. Brexit itself has not occured, and 2.5 years in we still don't know what it will be, what it will look like, or even if it will happen!

As mentioned if Sir Jim announced he would be building cars in the UK now on the eve of Brexit that would be a statement (and foolish), as wihtout an agreement with the EU there maybe 10% tarrifs on cars sold into Europe.

So looking at the effects of Brexit is not a black or white thing. Its nuanced, dependent on sector, dependent on what happens with Brexit itself. Maybe the government would provide lower taxes on bio companies to attract them etc etc Broad sweeping statments are not going to represent all of that complexity. A more interesting question is what will Brexit change to make UK invement more or less attractive? The logic most follow is having less easy access to the EUs 500m people is an impairment to investment. As is not being able to use the EU free trade agreements with the likes of Japan. But that doesn't follow for tech as there are no tarrifs on Apps or websites for example.

Who was it that said: Brexit was a victory of simple lies over complex truth ?
 
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To state the obvious, the loses with outfits like Sony, Japanese car makers and all car investment are due to pending Brexit. Uncertaincy and worries about a no deal exit. It's a reaction to possible Brexit. Brexit itself has not occured, and 2.5 years in we still don't know what it will be, what it will look like, or even if it will happen!

As mentioned if Sir Jim announced he would be building cars in the UK now on the eve of Brexit that would be a statement (and foolish), as wihtout an agreement with the EU there maybe 10% tarrifs on cars sold into Europe.

So looking at the effects of Brexit is not a black or white thing. Its nuanced, dependent on sector, dependent on what happens with Brexit itself. Maybe the government would provide lower taxes on bio companies to attract them etc etc Broad sweeping statments are not going to represent all of that complexity. A more interesting question is what will Brexit change to make UK invement more or less attractive? The logic most follow is having less easy access to the EUs 500m people is an impairment to investment. As is not being able to use the EU free trade agreements with the likes of Japan. But that doesn't follow for tech as there are no tarrifs on Apps or websites for example.

Who was it who said: Brexit was a victory of simple lies over complex truth ?

Surely global economics works in such a way that some deals benefit certain sectors where others suffer, its like a see-saw and always has been. History is littered with it and its not just policies changing that this effects, the world changes daily and with it we should change with it. The kids coming through schools now should and would be advised to persue careers in tech as thats the future, going out and flogging your guts off on the production line of Fords is not the future and even that industry is at threat by technology.

Like I said pages ago, we lost business to overseas countries long before Brexit for the same reasons we lost them now, favourable terms, cheaper labour, tax havens the lot.
 
Surely global economics works in such a way that some deals benefit certain sectors where others suffer, its like a see-saw and always has been. History is littered with it and its not just policies changing that this effects, the world changes daily and with it we should change with it. The kids coming through schools now should and would be advised to persue careers in tech as thats the future, going out and flogging your guts off on the production line of Fords is not the future and even that industry is at threat by technology.

Like I said pages ago, we lost business to overseas countries long before Brexit for the same reasons we lost them now, favourable terms, cheaper labour, tax havens the lot.

Brexit isn't and has never been simple. Not least because you are considering something that is yet to be fully defined. But there are broad themes we can project from to do with trade and access to markets.

Car manufacturing is extremely high tech now. Jobs on production lines are seen as highly skilled, and pay pretty well. One thing to watch for learning how to code as a kid is that someone in India could do the work and send it to someone in the UK in miliseconds. But yes it is the future, programers are the builders of the electronic world, and its here to stay. It's also not everyone's cup of tea - maths, and sitting in front of computer all day. Economies tend to do well when they are diversified.

What global economics deals are you refering to?
 
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Jeremy Corbyn says Labour will back another EU referendum after his alternative Brexit plan was again defeated in the Commons.

But the Labour leader said he will also continue to push for "other available options" including a general election.

John McDonnell said the party would table an amendment for a referendum when the "meaningful vote" on Theresa May's deal returns to Parliament.

The shadow chancellor also told ITV's Peston show he would vote for remain.

It came as MPs voted to endorse Theresa May's Brexit strategy - but only after she made a series of concessions.

The PM also faced a Brexiteer rebellion, after 20 Tory MPs voted against proposals, backed by the government, to delay the UK's 29 March departure date if there is a no-deal scenario.

But Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg, who was not among the 20 Tory rebels, offered an olive branch to Mrs May, as she continues to seek concessions from the EU on the controversial Irish backstop clause.

The chairman of the European Research Group of Brexiteer Tories said he disagreed with those who were demanding changes to the legal text of the withdrawal agreement and would accept an appendix to it.

Writing in The Daily Mail, he said: "I really do not mind what form of words the Attorney General and the EU agree on regarding the backstop - as long as it expires before the next election and has the same legal status as the deal."

Other leading figures in the ERG, including deputy chairman Steve Baker, have previously dismissed the legal annex to Mrs May's agreement being negotiated by Attorney General Geoffrey Cox.

Labour's Brexit proposals - which would see the UK join an EU customs union - were defeated by 323 votes to 240, a bigger margin than the last time MPs voted on them.

Mr Corbyn confirmed to MPs on Monday he would back another public vote if such a defeat took place - after resisting calls to do so from pro-EU Labour MPs.

'Full weight'
After Wednesday's vote, Mr Corbyn said: "We will back a public vote in order to prevent a damaging Tory Brexit or a disastrous no deal outcome.

"We will also continue to push for the other available options to prevent those outcomes, including a close economic relationship based on our credible alternative plan or a general election."

Labour MPs Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson have put forward a compromise plan to back Mrs May's deal with the condition that it is then put to a confirmatory public vote.

Former shadow cabinet minister Owen Smith, a longstanding critic of Mr Corbyn, said: "Now that Labour's version of Brexit has been rejected by Parliament, I expect Jeremy Corbyn to throw his full weight behind campaigning for a public vote."

Labour MP David Lammy, a supporter of the Best for Britain campaign for another referendum, said: "It's become clear today that there is no majority in the House for May's deal, but also that Labour's alternative plan cannot command a majority either.

"In the key votes ahead of us we must extend Article 50 to take a catastrophic no-deal off the table and use that time to put this decision back to the people to decide if they back the government's botched Brexit deal or staying in our current EU deal."

But Labour former minister Caroline Flint said the party should not back a further referendum despite the defeat of Mr Corbyn's plan.

She said: "I think the British public want us to get on with this and sort out a deal that works."

She said Labour's leadership should "engage in negotiation, to use the leverage you have got, to get a better deal".

Government concessions
MPs also rejected an SNP motion saying the UK should not leave the EU without a deal "under any circumstances" - by 324 votes to 288.

Labour MP Yvette Cooper's amendment, which the government supported, was backed by 502 votes to 20, with a small group of Tory Brexiteers voting against it.

The amendment contained Mrs May's commitment on giving MPs a vote on delaying Brexit if both her deal and no-deal are rejected by MPs.

Mrs May announced this policy as she promised MPs a meaningful vote on her deal by 12 March - just 17 days before the UK is set to leave the EU.

The move was designed to head off a possible defeat when MPs voted on Ms Cooper's amendment.

Ms Cooper did not drop her amendment, because she wanted to hold the prime minister to her word - although the government has said it accepted the proposal.

Conservative MP Alberto Costa's amendment, which seeks to protect the rights of UK citizens in the EU and vice versa, even if there is a no-deal Brexit, was nodded through by MPs, after the government said they supported it.

Mr Costa said he was still forced to resign as an aide to Scottish Secretary David Mundell because of a convention that members of the government cannot table amendments to government motions.

Conservative MP Caroline Spelman opted not to put her amendment - calling for the PM's promise to give MPs a vote on delaying Brexit to be made legally binding - to the vote, after reassurances by the government.

Conservative Party chairman Brandon Lewis accused Jeremy Corbyn of being "happy to ignore the biggest democratic vote in our nation's history" by saying he would back another referendum.




Have to say this wording really tickles me "including a close economic relationship based on our credible alternative plan "
 
I get the years of hurt and oppression that black people and black colonies had to endure, however is this kind of constant banging on by Lammy warranted or helpful?


He mentions and divides people into black and white camps more than anyone I know, surely that’s harmful? Surely we are "we" and "us" not black and white?

Stacey Dooley hits back at MP Lammy's Comic Relief 'white saviour' criticism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-47400300
 
I get the years of hurt and oppression that black people and black colonies had to endure, however is this kind of constant banging on by Lammy warranted or helpful?


He mentions and divides people into black and white camps more than anyone I know, surely that’s harmful? Surely we are "we" and "us" not black and white?

Stacey Dooley hits back at MP Lammy's Comic Relief 'white saviour' criticism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-47400300

It's not harmful for him, keeps him exactly where he wants to be.
 
It's not harmful for him, keeps him exactly where he wants to be.

Thats a huge point on it. HE does ok, his politcal career continues by pushing this stuff out, but I doubts its helpful to the cause.

For me I think anyone bringing awareness to the cause should be applauded and if it makes the appeal more successful because its more relateble then even better.
 
Labour MPs had a furious on air row with Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell over the party's handling of anti-Semitism.

The Shadow Chancellor clashed on ITV's Peston with Lisa Nandy and Wes Streeting over a historic incident that saw Naz Shah suspended for sharing anti-Semitic content.

"We immediately suspended her," he insisted.

But Ms Nandy said: "I was in the Shadow Cabinet at the time and I was trying to get answers out of the Leaders Office.

"I was live on telly being asked questions about it, it had been going on at that point for 24 hours, and no action had been taken, and the official line coming out of the party was ‘we’ll draw a line under it’ and that changed under pressure from members of the shadow Cabinet.”

Mr McDonnell said: “I took that decision, I’m sorry, you’re wrong.”

Ms Nandy replied: “It’s not true.”

Mr Streeting said: “People responsible for strategy and communications at the most senior level of the Labour party, I’m not going to name individual members of Labour party staff.

"But you know as well as I do that the most senior member of staff for strategy and communication did not think that she should be suspended, did not think that she should resign.”

Mr McDonnell replied: "I’m sorry Wes that is just unfair. I dealt with Naz, I think it is a shining example of how we deal with things effectively.

"The issue for me then was why weren’t we quicker on other cases as well, we’re leaning those lessons.

Ms Shah was suspended in 2016 after a 2014 Facebook post emerged in which she shared a graphic of Israel's outline superimposed on to a map of the US under the headline: Solution for Israel-Palestine Conflict - Relocate Israel into United States, with the comment: "Problem solved."

A Twitter post later emerged in which she urged supporters of the Palestinians to vote in an online poll on Israeli military action, claiming that "the Jews are rallying" to skew the result.

At the time the MP denied she was anti-Semitic but admitted "what I put out was anti-Semitic".

The Bradford West MP said that she was "ignorant" about anti-Semitism and wanted to win back the community's trust.

As a result she made efforts to reach out to the Jewish community and has been praised for her commitment to learn from her mistake.

She was admitted back into the party in July 2016 and since then has gone on to become a member of the Shadow Treasury team.
 
Conservative MP George Eustice has quit the government over Theresa May's promise to allow MPs a vote on delaying Brexit if her deal is rejected.

The farming minister said he would be voting for her deal when it comes back to Parliament next month.

But he feared the PM's offer of votes on delaying Brexit could lead to the "final humiliation of our country".

Mr Eustice is a longstanding Brexiteer, who stood as a UKIP MEP candidate before joining the Conservatives.

He is the 14th member of Theresa May's government to resign over Brexit.

The MP for Camborne and Redruth in Cornwall said he was resigning with "tremendous sadness".

But in his resignation letter, he said: "I fear that developments this week will lead to a sequence of events culminating in the EU dictating the terms of any extension requested and the final humiliation of our country."

He added: "We cannot negotiate a successful Brexit unless we are prepared to walk through the door."

The ex-farmer was a former press secretary to David Cameron - and played a leading role in Mr Cameron's 2005 Conservative leadership campaign.

His resignation comes after Theresa May's decision on Tuesday to allow MPs a vote on delaying the UK's departure from the EU, or ruling out a no-deal Brexit, if they again reject the withdrawal deal she has negotiated with the European Union.

BBC political correspondent Ben Wright said Mr Eustice's resignation was a symbolic stand against what he thought was a mistake in government policy.

The UK scheduled departure date from the EU is still 29 March - but that could be delayed if Theresa May fails to get her deal through Parliament in a vote she has promised will take place on or before 12 March.

Mr Eustice says in his letter that the government should retain the option of leaving without a deal.

"We must be ready to face down the European Union here and now. The absence of an agreement poses risks and costs for them too," he says in his resignation letter.
 
I do get some of what he’s complaining about on this though.

The obsession of uploading Instagram pictures of you ‘helping’ whilst posing with some handy hungry looking prop black kids is a little unsettling.

Although it’s possibly a generation thing too - some people can’t even just eat their grub now without having to snap three fudging pictures and uploading them on line with a fluffy dog ears filter and a hashtag, ffs....
 
He has a fair point. Just a warped way on approaching it.

He could have used it as a call to BAME celebs to get involved (although he would probably call out Lenny Henry for being too Oreo), but instead he thinks the way forward is division.
He is probably just representing the views of his constituents. There must be an election coming.
 
I do get some of what he’s complaining about on this though.

The obsession of uploading Instagram pictures of you ‘helping’ whilst posing with some handy hungry looking prop black kids is a little unsettling.

Although it’s possibly a generation thing too - some people can’t even just eat their grub now without having to snap three fudging pictures and uploading them on line with a fluffy dog ears filter and a hashtag, ffs....

While I would probably agree with you in a wider context, in this specific scenario that is precisely the point.

Take people with a wide reaching fanbase/PR/Social media, and get them to show the world what these countries are dealing with. That way they can guilt as many people as possible into funding their charity.

Its nothing to do with her being white, or having a white saviour complex (she really seems lovely), its to do with the fact she is the reigning Strictly Come Dancing champ. Thats it.
 
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